Need Help/Advise... novice but shopping for haying equipment

[TwoByrdsMG]

We own 51 acres of irrigated pasture. We have had our hay mowed, raked and baled by someone else since we bought the place. We pay him by the bale. He is raising the cost of baling by 20% next season.

At an extra 20% we would be out of pocket $10-13k to have him do the baling for us. We had a poor year but were still out of pocket $8k+ this year.

We only have a New Holland TC35D tractor for our farm use. We use it for brush hog, box scraper, bucket, cleaning ditches, disc, etc. I am pretty sure that we would have to buy another tractor to use to cut, rake and bale our own hay.

Other than learning the hard way on how to maintain our own tractor my husband and I know very little about haying equipment but are willing and capable of learning.

This time of year a lot of equipment comes up for sale. Recently we have seen a New Holland 310, New Holland 315 and New Holland 425 balers.

We also would love to hear about everyone's opinion on different rakes. Pros/cons of sickle vs. disc mowers.

Note: We are in our early 30s and would like to invest in equipment that we can use long term without completely breaking the bank. EX: If we financed equipment $800-1200 per month would be reasonable. We also have a close friend who has a couple fields that we could mow to offset the financed cost.

 

[T & B farms]

Before I can give my opinion. How much is he charging a bale? And what size bales?

 

[Richnm]

How many bales/tons are you getting out of the filed(s).

 

[jltrent]

With the price of cattle you need to do some real close penciling as haying is not cheap no matter how you do it. If I didn't already have my equipment with the price of cattle I could not buy new or even good used equipment and come out. This country let the Chinese buy up out biggest packing/slaughter houses and now we are at their mercy. They control the price and as long as there is a good supply of cattle whether being foreign or domestic they will not pay more. The Chinese bought a large hog processing plant close me, Cumberland Gap Provisions, and now they control the hog meat prices in this area. Why in heck would this country let other countries control our food beats me, as China sure would not have let this happen to their country.

Here is some figures and probably too cheap.

Good round/square usable dependable round baler $7k
Tractor to pull it $15k+
Tedder $2k+
Hay rake $2k+
2nd tractor $5k+
Disc mower $4k+

If they need parts prices can be very expensive.

 

[Texasmark]

Around here larger tractors are usually cheaper than small ones due to the metropolitan area and lots of small acreage available. 5x6 balers (vs 4x?) and twine-string tie balers (vs Net Wrap) are available at really nice prices for great machines considering.

A good JD 530 baler baling a 5x6 can be had for $5k with maybe a new belt or two and a couple of bearings on the rollers and a 100 hp (Diesel) tractor to pull it (so it smokes a little; so the rubber is 50%...big deal), JD 4020 to name one for $8-10k.....with luck with a loader. A JD 500 or 600 series parallel bar rake at $700-1500, and a NEW 6' Drum Mower vs used Disc Mower (AND YOU DON'T WANT A SICKLE BAR) for $3k would put you in the haying business around here.

That's exactly how I got my start (EXCEPT FOR LEARNING THAT I DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING WITH A SICKLE BAR) and I'm quoting today's prices for availability. Craigs List, Farm and Garden is an excellent place to find used equipment and I see useable equipment at good prices daily. You can use your existing tractor for mowing and raking.

The loader is nice to have in moving hay as you can put hay spikes on the loader and 3 pt and move 2 of those large bales at a time. Big bales move out of the field faster, store in the weather better, and when fed last longer for fewer trips out in the winter weather.

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

Before I can give my opinion. How much is he charging a bale? And what size bales?

He is charging $2.50 per 60-75 lb hay bale. Depends on the field. Sizes are the same. Small bales.
Raising it to $3.00 per bale.

We baled around 105 tons of hay from our property this year and 125 tons last year.

I was leaning more towards a 4 or 5 disc mower, side rake and baler. Do we need a tedder also? We are in Oregon and the guy that bales our hay does not use one.

My husband thinks that we should get a brand new 65 hp tractor and get used equipment that will work for that tractor.

 

[littletom]

Where are you located? And what are you doing with the hay? Are you selling it as premium horse hay, so it has to be in small squares? Or feeding it to your cows ?

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

Where are you located? And what are you doing with the hay? Are you selling it as premium horse hay, so it has to be in small squares? Or feeding it to your cows ?

We sell 3/4 of it to horse folks. And the rest we keep for our cows. The way our barn is designed the small bales work better for our feeding area too.

Southern Oregon area

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

If you think his price is too expensive you need to really put some numbers on paper to see if you can do it cheaper.

By the time you buy equipment, fuel, grease, oil, twine, parts, add in for your labor, wear and tear on equipment, etc I would guess you will find yourself over his figures....

 

[jltrent]

You might check around and find somebody to bale cheaper as $3 a bale seems a little on the high side.

 

[hurleyjd]

"Other than learning the hard way on how to maintain our own tractor my husband and I know very little about haying equipment but are willing and capable of learning."

Yep you can get an education pretty quick with haying equipment. If you have to hire a mechanic they are in the $99 to $125 range.

 

[1982vett]

You might check around and find somebody to bale cheaper as $3 a bale seems a little on the high side.

Wondering if $3 a bale also includes putting it in the the barn using accumulators and equipment? Been so long since I've baled squares I haven't a clue as what is the going rate for squares.

 

[jltrent]

You might check around and find somebody to bale cheaper as $3 a bale seems a little on the high side.

Wondering if $3 a bale also includes putting it in the the barn using accumulators and equipment? Been so long since I've baled squares I haven't a clue as what is the going rate for squares.

Had the same wonders here....

 

[farmerjan]

$3.00 bale is very reasonable in my opinion if they are putting it in the barn. If you are selling the hay, you ought to be able to recoup that cost and feed your cattle basically for nothing, plus you are not out any time, not to mention the cost of equipment, fuel, etc., and so on mentioned by all the others. What do sq bales of hay sell for in your area? If this is irrigated hayfields, what kind of hay and does it command a premium price from people?
Just for some comparisons. We sell sq bales of hay to several horse customers. This is orchard grass hay, usually 2nd cutting due to the weather being iffy to get sq bales made on 1st cutting. Most all our hay is rolled 1st cutting because we are working against the weather, more rain more often and some of the hay getting over mature by the time we can get it made.

We try to make 2-3,000 square bales a year. We have all the equipment, all old and bought here and there over the years. Just spent over $700 to have the sq baler gone over, needed some work on the knives and the knotters....I am not a mechanic, don't know the particulars. We make sq bales in the 50 lb size. Sell them delivered for $7-8.00 bale. These are long standing regular customers that help unload, and pay when we leave, in cash. We have 3 customers that we can deliver to at the same time, in the same area, none can use a whole load of 200+ so it works out well. We sell for $5.00 off the wagon in the field. Our baler has a kicker, but we stack the bales so they keep their shape and if they get stored on the wagons in the shed we can tell exactly how many bales are on the wagons. If we have to put the wagons in the sheds, the price goes up to $6.00 bale.
We custom sq bale for a friend and get $3.00 bale from him. His field, his hay, he cuts and rakes....that is just baling. That is the going rate here. He only wants 100-200 sq bales to use for his goats, everything else is round baled for his cows.
Round bales are $8.00 bale for twine, these are 5x5; $12.00 for net wrapped, these are 4x5....baling only.
We custom make the hay for one neighbor, first cutting, then he pastures the field late for the cows for winter forage and feeds hay. I believe we get somewhere in the average of $20.00 a bale, cut, raked, baled. My son charges by the time for the cutting & raking , and if it needs to be tedded out to dry it faster. The baling is by the bale. This is standard in our area. This is also not on irrigated hay ground.

If I am figuring it @ 65 lb average, you are getting about 30 bales to the ton. That's $90 ton. If this is in your barn, then can you go out and buy that same hay, put in your barn for that price? I am assuming that you are paying for the fertilizer since it is your field so that makes the cost go up on a per bale. What is the cost of the fertilizer?
Does he get the hay made in a timely manner and is it nice hay? One thing to consider, over and above the costs of machinery/equipment, fuel, breakdowns/parts, and your actual physical labor (which pays next to nothing back) is can you get the hay made when it needs to be made? Seriously, because we juggle 2 jobs and trying to get hay made when the weather is right. That is our biggest challenge, being able to drop everything because the next 3-4-5 days are perfect for making hay.
Since you are irrigating, I am assuming that you do not have to deal with working around rain like we do here. God bless you for that, it can be the most difficult part of it. Had hay down, 3 days of less than 10% chance rain. We got over 2 inches of rain those 3 days total when we weren't supposed to really get any. Had 5 days of 30-40% chance that we only got clouds another time. So you play the game and take chances when it looks good, and hope you don't fall in that little 10% bracket.

 

[farmerjan]

Just to add, not trying to discourage you. We have old equipment, I just raked 4 small irregularly shaped fields with the old Farmall H and a single row side delivery rake. I LIKE to rake hay. You don't need a big tractor or tons of HP to make sq bales, like with a round baler that really makes a tractor work. Just want you to think about the time and the cost of not just the equipment, but the VALUE of the hay getting made well, and put in the barn. Around here a few have gone to an accumulator that stacks and binds the sq bales in "cubes " of like 27 bales or so. We cannot find help to stack hay on wagons, or to get it unloaded off the wagons into the barns. I envy your being young, and physically able to do it; I was there once!!!!! Just want you to try to see it from all sides and where your time and money will be better spent. Maybe, you could work with this farmer and learn from him and you could be in a position to start doing it as a business down the road????

 

[snoopdog]

Jan said it all, I have a 60 year old square baler, that misses every once in a while, usually when I'm not paying attention. I absolutely will not pull into a field for less than 1.50 a bale.

 

[littletom]

I have around small square balers off and on my whole life most everyone was a huge pita to be honest. Last year I found a 5 year old never been hooked to a tractor jd 348. I bought it and really like running it so far, but it was far from cheap. Just be prepared buying a older square baler they are often a big pita.

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

You might check around and find somebody to bale cheaper as $3 a bale seems a little on the high side.

Wondering if $3 a bale also includes putting it in the the barn using accumulators and equipment? Been so long since I've baled squares I haven't a clue as what is the going rate for squares.

$3 a bale does not include moving the hay into the barn. He would do that for an extra $1 a bale but we determined early on that we can move it off the field just fine. The 7 and 10 year olds fight over who drives the tractor and we have a bale elevator to get them onto the trailer so we just stack them and unload.

The cost of hay in our area for comparable hay quality and bale size is $8-12 per bale.

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

Just to add, not trying to discourage you. We have old equipment, I just raked 4 small irregularly shaped fields with the old Farmall H and a single row side delivery rake. I LIKE to rake hay. You don't need a big tractor or tons of HP to make sq bales, like with a round baler that really makes a tractor work. Just want you to think about the time and the cost of not just the equipment, but the VALUE of the hay getting made well, and put in the barn. Around here a few have gone to an accumulator that stacks and binds the sq bales in "cubes " of like 27 bales or so. We cannot find help to stack hay on wagons, or to get it unloaded off the wagons into the barns. I envy your being young, and physically able to do it; I was there once!!!!! Just want you to try to see it from all sides and where your time and money will be better spent. Maybe, you could work with this farmer and learn from him and you could be in a position to start doing it as a business down the road????

Jan,

We do irrigate but this is Oregon so we also have to watch the weather closely. Sometimes it says no rain then pours when the hay is down. The gentleman that cuts our hay is not someone who would be willing to teach us anything about haying other than what not to do (cut too close to the edge, cut a field with ant hills or rocks, etc).

We shopped around and $3-3.25 is about what everyone else is going to charge next year. Nobody will move it off the field for that price. He also volunteered to take half the hay instead of us paying him but that would be taking money out of our pocket too-- we have more customers than hay.

 

[Texasmark]

Another couple of things, re-reading the post.

Having your own equipment means your field(s) get baled when they are ready and "Mother Nature" lets you......not when a hired crew "gets around to it" and if they are good they are usually busy so who knows when.....

Square bales are a burden to a small time (single person) operator, especially in second guessing the weather, getting it out of the field, having a place to store it, ensuring you get it cut right (weather cooperating) and you get it put up at the right moisture level so that you don't have a fire or moldy bales. Used to be you could arrange with the local high school to have a pool of youths to do the handling for you for a decent wage for them and reasonable cost to you. Those days are long gone for several reasons!!!!!!

Rained on squares are good for........erosion control if you can find a buyer.