Natural / Organic Beef

[MrBilly]

SF's post giving the definition of natural is correct, however I take exception with the no added hormones or added antibiotics terminology. This really pertains to the labeling on the product and is probably more important for large producers than small producers selling directly to the public.

The no added is the correct way to advertise the raising process; and this is the way most of the large companies state it. It is also the way the "Legal Guide to Direct Farm Marketing" addresses the topic. You need to have documentation that what you say is what you do.

From the USDA site on labeling;

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Frame/FrameRed ... blterm.htm


"NATURAL:
A product containing no artificial ingredient or added color and is only minimally processed (a process which does not fundamentally alter the raw product) may be labeled natural. The label must explain the use of the term natural (such as - no added colorings or artificial ingredients; minimally processed.)

NO HORMONES (pork or poultry):
Hormones are not allowed in raising hogs or poultry. Therefore, the claim "no hormones added" cannot be used on the labels of pork or poultry unless it is followed by a statement that says "Federal regulations prohibit the use of hormones."

NO HORMONES (beef):
The term "no hormones administered" may be approved for use on the label of beef products if sufficient documentation is provided to the Agency by the producer showing no hormones have been used in raising the animals.

NO ANTIBIOTICS (red meat and poultry):
The terms "no antibiotics added" may be used on labels for meat or poultry products if sufficient documentation is provided by the producer to the Agency demonstrating that the animals were raised without antibiotics. "

We DO NOT label our beef that we sell, other than to state that the pack contains a ribeye, or ground beef, etc.

All of our literature and our website clearly states the no added and we go on to explain what that means.

You can have a Natural product and it will have been raised with antibiotics and hormones added; we try NEVER to use the word natural because it is so over used and misunderstood.

I do not think it is possible for us to raise organic beef and be able to label it as such , at least not where we live. I have found no source of organic grain and other supplements, and how do you deal with worms and flys in the humid southeast?

Billy

http://www.sellfarm.com

 

[Larry Sansom]

Well Larry, here is one nay-sayer telling you I can put grass fed "only" beef in the freezer and corn fed beef in the freezer and you can eat it and never know which is which. As far as I am concerned this "Organic beef" stuff is just a bunch of bunk and a means of sucking more money from folks.

I don't implant and like I said, mine are raised on hay, grass, minerals, water and I bet mine eat and taste just as good as yours.

Genetically inspired organic beef is a bunch of crap. Respectfully, flaboy.

LOVE YOUR ATTITUDE - that way the thinking cattlemen in America can make a profit and provide a healthy, enjoyable eatting experience and the rest of the non-beleivers can just try to compete on a no-win commodity priced program. Keep up your good work- we love your kind of competition! Someday you will understand - hopefully not any time too soon.

 

[Dee]

I sold my calves this year as "all natural" according to the rules of the SD certified Beef Program. That was all vaccinations, any natural feed, (grass, hay, corn, etc.), but no implants, no antibiotics, and no rumensin or bovatec. When I inquired about all natural creep, one feed store said I could still feed rumensin and be all natural. Is there a standard rule of what qualifies as all natural? It seems one persons definition is way different from anothers. I just bought a calf yesterday from a couple who give NO shots, or vaccinations to any of their cattle, and claim they are "organic", although they have a wormer block, and iono-lyx tubs in the lot, and buy corn and oats from the elevator?!?

 

[J]

I sold my calves this year as "all natural" according to the rules of the SD certified Beef Program. That was all vaccinations, any natural feed, (grass, hay, corn, etc.), but no implants, no antibiotics, and no rumensin or bovatec. When I inquired about all natural creep, one feed store said I could still feed rumensin and be all natural. Is there a standard rule of what qualifies as all natural? It seems one persons definition is way different from anothers. I just bought a calf yesterday from a couple who give NO shots, or vaccinations to any of their cattle, and claim they are "organic", although they have a wormer block, and iono-lyx tubs in the lot, and buy corn and oats from the elevator?!?

I hope the extra money made per head for selling as "all natural" or "organic" is a significant amount because I sounds like a lot of hassle and worry. If you run an all natural organic program and then oops the ole boy at the feed store sells yu on something like rumensin or that wormer block then is your program shot to he$@ and you have to kind of start over?

This is new to me, sounds good but not sure I would be interrested at this point.

 

[J]

I guess that last post puts me in the nay sayer group?


:lol: :lol: :roll:

 

[flaboy+]

LOVE YOUR ATTITUDE - that way the thinking cattlemen in America can make a profit and provide a healthy, enjoyable eatting experience and the rest of the non-beleivers can just try to compete on a no-win commodity priced program. Keep up your good work- we love your kind of competition! Someday you will understand - hopefully not any time too soon.

Go kiss a tree Larry. Folks down here been in the organic cattle business longer than you have been alive. The only time they see them is when they take them to market. Don't have time to feed those expensive "organic" feeds or shoot em up with drugs. They are too busy watching them eat all that green grass and get fat.

Respectfully,
flaboy :cboy:

 

[J]

:shock: Go kiss a tree Larry :shock:



:lol:

 

[Larry Sansom]

LOVE YOUR ATTITUDE - that way the thinking cattlemen in America can make a profit and provide a healthy, enjoyable eatting experience and the rest of the non-beleivers can just try to compete on a no-win commodity priced program. Keep up your good work- we love your kind of competition! Someday you will understand - hopefully not any time too soon.

Go kiss a tree Larry. Folks down here been in the organic cattle business longer than you have been alive. The only time they see them is when they take them to market. Don't have time to feed those expensive "organic" feeds or shoot em up with drugs. They are too busy watching them eat all that green grass and get fat.

Respectfully,
flaboy :cboy:

You and J have fallen off one too many horses. Your reasoning powers have me lol . You say you are not feeding grain, not giving antibiotics or hormones - but you laugh at it??? That is exactly what we Natural producers have been preaching for years. FYI God created a perfect RUMINANT, many people think they can improve on that plan by feeding grain, low level antibiotics, and injecting hormones. Then they wonder why their health has gone down with high cholesterol, etc. The public realizes the health benefits of this type of beef and will pay a premium for it. Why don't you accept the premium they are offering???

 

[flaboy+]

I eat venison and wild turkey. It don't get no leaner than that.

Larry, my point is this has been around since BC. This is not something new. I think I have had one person in years and years ask me if I used implants. The only implants I want to see is on a human female.

I guess it was the genetically engineered organic beef that set me off. I really didn't/don't mean to offend you or your plans. I'm just saying most of us meet the requirements now and nobody cares or asks about it. If it works for you then fine. Donw here, at least for right now, my buyers really don't care.

 

[SF]

For those who wish to continue consuming the hormones, antibiotics, and steroids, then great. Keep it up. There are many people who want food that does not contain these things. Are the natural and organic programs perfect? No there not, but they are working on it. There is a market for it and there is nothing wrong with trying to improve your profit margins through this or any other type of niche in the market place.

If you are one who can't tell the difference between grass fed beef and grain fed beef, then you've never had grain fed beef. There is not only a taste difference, but the fat in the meat will even look different. This is not even an argument, just plain ignorance.

 

[SF]

... my point is this has been around since BC...

Really now....... Cattle have been implanted with hormones, fed antibiotics, and steroids since BC. :lol:

Organic foods and natural foods have been around since BC. I don't think that implants, antibiotics, etc... have been around until the last century.

 

[J]

For those who wish to continue consuming the hormones, antibiotics, and steroids, then great. Keep it up. There are many people who want food that does not contain these things. Are the natural and organic programs perfect? No there not, but they are working on it. There is a market for it and there is nothing wrong with trying to improve your profit margins through this or any other type of niche in the market place.

If you are one who can't tell the difference between grass fed beef and grain fed beef, then you've never had grain fed beef. There is not only a taste difference, but the fat in the meat will even look different. This is not even an argument, just plain ignorance.

I say to each his own.
As far as steriods in cattle, I've not endorsed that. Never have on these boards.

Antibiotics? - If needed to keep my cattle alive then so be it. I don't care if you are organic or not, either way a dead cow hurts your profits.

Hormones... if I can recall, I think it was junior high biology class, hormones are a "NATURAL" part of our lives. Yeah just like everything else I guess it can be over done. I never said on these boards implants were necessary, just wanted some opinions, sorry I'll not ask about them again, obviously I am wrong. :x

 

[flaboy+]

If you are one who can't tell the difference between grass fed beef and grain fed beef, then you've never had grain fed beef. There is not only a taste difference, but the fat in the meat will even look different. This is not even an argument, just plain ignorance.

SF, I don't claim to know it all or even to be as intelligent as you. God knows tree huggers know it all. Here's my challenge. I cook three dishes of the same cut of meat. You taste each one and tell me which is the grass fed. $200 rides on it. I have done this before to some pretty serious beef eaters. I have yet to have anyone identify the grass fed. I have heard the claims over and over about "I can taste the difference", bull crap on you! Now, if you want to look at the beef before cooking that is a different story and we ARE talking taste and not looks. You see your lack of experience in this doesn't make you ignorant as you so willingly proclaim others, it just shows you have little experience in the field of raising beef and actually experimenting with different methods. You just read somewhere that one was better than the other. I do applogize for my ignorance, I'm just a an old country boy.

Kids, ya gotta love em.

 

[flaboy+]

Hormones... if I can recall, I think it was junior high biology class, hormones are a "NATURAL" part of our lives. Yeah just like everything else I guess it can be over done. I never said on these boards implants were necessary, just wanted some opinions, sorry I'll not ask about them again, obviously I am wrong. :x

Hey J, you did nothing wrong. That was another thread where you asked. There is nothing wrong with asking questions.

I just love a good tussle. Biketoberfest next week will give me a fix for a couple weeks assuming I get the rest of my hay in before then. :lol:

 

[Dana Kopp]

I would bet that an experienced butcher or meat/carcass judge can look at a carcass and tell you whether it was grain or grass fed by the amount, placement and color of the fat. I know that corn fed beef has yellow-er fat than other grain-fed beef but whether anyone could tell the difference between a barley fed and a grass fed would be interesting. My sister who is a meats judge and carcass eval person says "I can tell the difference in what grains have been fed because of fat color. You can sometimes tell because the carcasses are smaller, less meat, sometimes less marbling, because grass fed takes longer to finish."

I have looked into Natural beef and our program fits right in with the standards of the businesses I contacted. I don't believe there are any regulations in effect now, other than labeling that cover the NAtural vs Organic vs grass-fed as far as reviewing or checking that everyone is truthful. One of the businesses I contacted has a 15 or 20 page list of "banned medications" such as antibiotics and implants, normal vaccinations such as blackleg, redwater, lepto were o.k. if given properly. When you contracted with them they were allowed to drop by to check on your farm set-up, cattle handling locations and methods and carcasses. If you had to use one of their "banned medications" on an animal you simply just sell it through the stockyards rather than in their program. The biggest drawback, to us, with most of these programs is that they buy in potloads only - not the 15 - 30 we might be selling. We have kept back a steer a couple times now and sold him as grass fed beef and our "customers" have been thrilled but the expense of buying a whole or even half a beef and the amount of freezer space can be a surprise to people.

 

[flaboy+]

I agree Dana. I just don't wanna waste implants on cows. :lol:

Yeah so what's your point? I AM A SICK MAN!

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

Good article on natural

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/fit_natu...kDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9m BHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 

[SF]

For those who wish to continue consuming the hormones, antibiotics, and steroids, then great. Keep it up. There are many people who want food that does not contain these things. Are the natural and organic programs perfect? No there not, but they are working on it. There is a market for it and there is nothing wrong with trying to improve your profit margins through this or any other type of niche in the market place.

If you are one who can't tell the difference between grass fed beef and grain fed beef, then you've never had grain fed beef. There is not only a taste difference, but the fat in the meat will even look different. This is not even an argument, just plain ignorance.

I say to each his own.
As far as steriods in cattle, I've not endorsed that. Never have on these boards.

Antibiotics? - If needed to keep my cattle alive then so be it. I don't care if you are organic or not, either way a dead cow hurts your profits.

Hormones... if I can recall, I think it was junior high biology class, hormones are a "NATURAL" part of our lives. Yeah just like everything else I guess it can be over done. I never said on these boards implants were necessary, just wanted some opinions, sorry I'll not ask about them again, obviously I am wrong. :x[/quote

Ask all the questions you want. Great conversation thus far. The antibiotics Im referring to are the ones that are mixed with many feed rations. Most organic and/or natural growers I know will give a calf antibiotics if it is sick. It is however pulled out of the organic program at that point.

 

[SF]

If you are one who can't tell the difference between grass fed beef and grain fed beef, then you've never had grain fed beef. There is not only a taste difference, but the fat in the meat will even look different. This is not even an argument, just plain ignorance.

SF, I don't claim to know it all or even to be as intelligent as you. God knows tree huggers know it all. Here's my challenge. I cook three dishes of the same cut of meat. You taste each one and tell me which is the grass fed. $200 rides on it. I have done this before to some pretty serious beef eaters. I have yet to have anyone identify the grass fed. I have heard the claims over and over about "I can taste the difference", bull crap on you! Now, if you want to look at the beef before cooking that is a different story and we ARE talking taste and not looks. You see your lack of experience in this doesn't make you ignorant as you so willingly proclaim others, it just shows you have little experience in the field of raising beef and actually experimenting with different methods. You just read somewhere that one was better than the other. I do applogize for my ignorance, I'm just a an old country boy.

Kids, ya gotta love em.

If I'm ever in Florida I'll take you up on that. I've raised and butchered both. Grass fed has a different taste than grain fed. To each their own though.

In response to your sarcasm, I wish I was still a kid, didn't know I was more intelligent than you, but if I am and according to you, I am, then thats okay with me too.

 

[Brandonm2]

I have to agree. I have grass fattened beef in the freezer; and I like the meat; BUT I can tell the difference. I won't claim that I can taste the difference between high select and low choice; but Prime is a much different eating experience than low Choice and I can spot a cow steak as soon as it appears on the first bite. I like and I eat all of the above; but arguing that nobody can tell the difference between grass fattened and USDA Choice grain fattened by taste is pushing the envelope. I can also taste a definite difference between Tyson's chickens and the Rhode Island Reds/Austrolorps/Jersey Giants I raise behind the house.