My New SAV Bull

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CreekAngus said:
************* said:
NEFarmwife said:
You're funny. I told you I had NOT bred President to any of my Registered herd. I only bred him to our commercial.

I didn't want to use him on my GOOD cattle.

My cattle check could buy your entire herd. So, you're laughable. All my registered herd have genomics. Keep fetching buddy.

Sorry you're unable to sell a PB bull for more than our commercials... if you ever want some advice, private message me.

Wait, how many bulls do you have in stud at the moment?

It's really difficult to have any respect at all for you when every comment you post becomes personal, and quickly at that.

One thing is for sure, if this hillbilly, bumpkin from Kentucky can get your feathers so ruffled, I must be doing something right.

Check out another one that was born on 5-12. In addition to the Supercharger son earlier in the day

http://bit.ly/2Vup9Uh

Her dam would be able to provide shade for your cows. LOL!

You know enough about EPD's to know what this one will be capable of producing. Just look at that milk!!! Do you understand milk, and what it does?

President daughter out of a 2200 pound dam, what's not to love???? :wave:

I don't milk EPD is one I don't trust.

Her dam is top 2% for milk and has raised a son and a daughter which we own, that were big, really big. They never went hungry, that's for sure.

Her calf right now can't even begin to take down all the milk she is producing, and she is nursing like crazy. I have video, momma's sack looked like 4 basketballs when she was born, it's coming down now. Too bad I couldn't hook up the new Supercharger calf to those udders. LOL! I think he's been eying them from across the field :lol2:
 
I've never thought much of the Charlo bull calves that I've seen myself. None have moved freely and effortlessly. But people buy them so that's all that matters. I had my mind made up to buy a Charlo son and the breeder talked me out out it. But I guess that what happens when you deal with a straight shooter.
 
************* said:
Lazy M said:
************* said:
Jeanne, you are right!

Someone takes a straw of President and uses him on a non-registered, regular cow, and gets a bull, It's a pretty safe bet to say that he will struggle to bring much of a premium. Case in point. I go to the yards, buy a $300 cull cow, I manage to get her settled to President and get a bull, he's probably not going to bring much.

You are in the registered business, you know how it works. There are people out there using President on some VERY NICE cows, and for that effort, they are going to command more than $3k for the animal. In our state, that is close to the price you get for a registered grandson or great-grandson, not a direct son. Listen to the auctioneers when they say "this great-grandson is from such and such" Most sales here in the Bluegrass put the direct AI sons at the front of the sale, and after they sell, almost always at a premium, most people are walking out, and by the end of the sale it's usually just the bargain hunters left and the people looking for a free meal. I can't recall a registered Angus sale that I've seen in Kentucky whereby every last animal sold was a direct son of a top AI sire, and proven via DNA, and where the ENTIRE CROWD remained until the last bull was sold. The majority of registered bulls sold in Kentucky are multiple generations away from the sire that the auctioneer is squawking about.

A direct son, from a top dam, that is problem free, and has excellent phenotype has a completely different market than a great-grandson that is not even DNA tested. You know that.

Not true. I've been to countless registered sales in the bluegrass area and all the bulls are AI sired. The only place I know of to buy naturally sired bulls are the weekly stockyard sales or Craigslist. You're beginning to make info up to support your position.
I've tried to stay out of this silly debate, but who are you marketing your bulls to? Other seedstock providers our commercial operations?
I'm commercial and a bull from a proven AI sire is much more valuable to me than an unproven sire. Raising cattle can be challenging enough without rolling the dice on a bull that may or may not be as good as his low accuracy epds indicate.
I'd think most seedstock producers worth their salt are not in the market for a high dollar cover bull.. Not when they can buy the straw and make one for themselves.

Name an Angus operation in Kentucky where EVERY bull in the sale was a direct AI son? I asked my ABS rep who should know better than I do, and he said he has never seen a major sale here where EVERY SINGLE bull is sired via AI and is proven with a DNA test for parentage.

Please post the operation, I want to see their AAA sale report, just curious.

Start with Boyd's. Keep in mind that the ABS guy is a SALESMAN and will feed into your distorted self grandiosity if it will help him sell you a few more straws. I'm sure he rolls his eyes and chuckles as he pulls out of your place.
 
************* said:
NEFarmwife said:
************* said:
When are you going to post pics and vids of your President progeny? I for one am holding my breath, and turning blue. Don't forget to DNA test them first, might be an ole mix up at the "CO-OP", or "I've got so many head of cattle, and I'm so important, that when you AI 9000 head a year it's just hard to tell who is who?

I'm sure CT members can get together a Go Fund Me page to help you rustle up the registration and testing costs for a few calves for us to look at, we wouldn't expect you to test your entire herd, which probably rivals what XIT once had.

You're funny. I told you I had NOT bred President to any of my Registered herd. I only bred him to our commercial.

I didn't want to use him on my GOOD cattle.

My cattle check could buy your entire herd. So, you're laughable. All my registered herd have genomics. Keep fetching buddy.

Sorry you're unable to sell a PB bull for more than our commercials... if you ever want some advice, private message me.

Wait, how many bulls do you have in stud at the moment?

It's really difficult to have any respect at all for you when every comment you post becomes personal, and quickly at that.

One thing is for sure, if this hillbilly, bumpkin from Kentucky can get your feathers so ruffled, I must be doing something right.

Check out another one that was born on 5-12. In addition to the Supercharger son earlier in the day

http://bit.ly/2Vup9Uh

Her dam would be able to provide shade for your cows. LOL!

You know enough about EPD's to know what this one will be capable of producing. Just look at that milk!!! Do you understand milk, and what it does?

President daughter out of a 2200 pound dam, what's not to love???? :wave:

I take things personally? Lol. You're a child when people don't agree with you.

Your 2200lbs cow doesn't make me foam at the mouth.
 
It's entertaining here, but I am getting bored with many Angus names in this board. Perhaps should we change Cattle Today to SAV/President/whatever Today?
 
Name an Angus operation in Kentucky where EVERY bull in the sale was a direct AI son? I asked my ABS rep who should know better than I do, and he said he has never seen a major sale here where EVERY SINGLE bull is sired via AI and is proven with a DNA test for parentage.

Please post the operation, I want to see their AAA sale report, just curious.
[/quote]

That is loaded question, there may not be a sale in North Dakota that is AI bulls all through out and that's because there is no rational reason for Boyd, SAV, Baldridge, Crouthamel, Thomas, Shipwheel, Square B, put a name here; to not use their herd bulls and put those progeny in the sale. James I get where you're coming from, I just helped conduct a sale her locally in April, the lowest priced bulls were sons of sons, but a lot of that had to do with phenotype, the fall off was incredibly obvious and the owners of those bulls need to learn how to use knife.
 
I got a message from "Young" today. AAA corrected the genealogy of the bull and changed the epds. His bull turned into a calving ease bull with pretty much the same expected performance. I went back through the pedigree on his bull, that fella is double bred to Blackcap May 4136..............$5,000 he got a deal, I don't care if its Rainmaker, Rainfall, Raindance or Rainwhenever, he got a really nice bull, bred with great maternal influence. His bull ought to be a female making machine. If I had that guy on my place, we wouldn't touch a straw of semen for couple of years. SAV might have goofed up, but Kelly made a great purchase for Young. Looking forward to seeing his progeny.
 
Just look at that milk!!! Do you understand milk, and what it does?
Yes I do. Stacking well above average milk EPD's in a breed that supposedly is maternal is asking for trouble on all accounts.
Her dam is top 2% for milk and has raised a son and a daughter which we own, that were big, really big. They never went hungry, that's for sure.
All well & good but your Stonegate dam is a 10/2011 model with 2 progeny records and moreover calved recently. Obviously her CI is less than sterling.
Her calf right now can't even begin to take down all the milk she is producing, and she is nursing like crazy. I have video, momma's sack looked like 4 basketballs when she was born, it's coming down now.
Trust by "sack" you meant udder. Between you & me & the gate post, I wouldn't be bragging about basket ball sized quarters.
 
Lazy M said:
************* said:
Lazy M said:
Not true. I've been to countless registered sales in the bluegrass area and all the bulls are AI sired. The only place I know of to buy naturally sired bulls are the weekly stockyard sales or Craigslist. You're beginning to make info up to support your position.
I've tried to stay out of this silly debate, but who are you marketing your bulls to? Other seedstock providers our commercial operations?
I'm commercial and a bull from a proven AI sire is much more valuable to me than an unproven sire. Raising cattle can be challenging enough without rolling the dice on a bull that may or may not be as good as his low accuracy epds indicate.
I'd think most seedstock producers worth their salt are not in the market for a high dollar cover bull.. Not when they can buy the straw and make one for themselves.

Name an Angus operation in Kentucky where EVERY bull in the sale was a direct AI son? I asked my ABS rep who should know better than I do, and he said he has never seen a major sale here where EVERY SINGLE bull is sired via AI and is proven with a DNA test for parentage.

Please post the operation, I want to see their AAA sale report, just curious.

Start with Boyd's. Keep in mind that the ABS guy is a SALESMAN and will feed into your distorted self grandiosity if it will help him sell you a few more straws. I'm sure he rolls his eyes and chuckles as he pulls out of your place.

You misunderstood what I said. I'm talking a sale where EVERY bull is from a TOP AI sire. I'm not talking about the second string lineup.

Even Boyd is using a couple of his own bulls to sire the lots in that sale. One more thing according to NEFarmWife, if your "Daddy" set you up in the business you are disqualified from getting in on the Angus action. She said it, and we all know she is the "AUTHORITY" on Angus.

Grandiosity? Again, I think people like you affirm that we are making big inroads in a "Good ole boy" closed off business. At the end of the day, it's not about anything BUT the ANIMAL standing in front of you, and what we are producing is not exactly available everywhere you turn. You discount the effort and hard work that has gone into our operation as if everyone is doing this, not everyone is committed to what it takes to produce next level stock. You almost have me thinking that you are a competitor in Kentucky????

I feel at times that the seed stock producers in Kentucky have a conference call and they all agree to breed to the same sires, because each annual sale just has variations of the same theme. If that's what you like, great, but I like to take things in a different direction, the road less traveled. There is nothing wrong with playing it safe, but it becomes very boring at times. I think what really bothers you is that I don't have a carefully curated reputation to protect. I don't have to worry that if I say something, I might offend someone. I NEVER purposely set out to offend anyone, I just say what's on my mind. I could be the person who grins, shakes your hand, and tells you what you want to hear, but that's not me, for better or worse. I could also be the person who hides behind a made up screen name and lurks, again, not me. I had someone tell me the other day, that they could never post what I do, because they fear that their clients might get upset. What a horrible way to live your life, and to be constrained. I would not even be in the business if my hands were tied like that. Life has dealt me the cards where I can choose to breed what I like, versus what I have to breed in order to keep the lights on. Why do you think I admire Charles Herbster? Because he's got the lead view, he does what he wants, his view is not from an inferior position if you know what I mean.

As for the ABS guy, Ron and others on here that work with David can back me up when I say he is probably one of the most "by the book" people I have ever dealt with in the cattle business. He is an ABSOLUTE professional, A to Z. The notion that he laughs at his clients is completely false. He bends over backwards for his clients. In fact if more people in Kentucky would give him a call, they might be shocked at how their herds improve over a period of a few years. He knows that the majority of my semen purchases will not be ABS or Origen sires, but he helps me any way he can. Again, you are wrong and uninformed.
 
CreekAngus said:
Name an Angus operation in Kentucky where EVERY bull in the sale was a direct AI son? I asked my ABS rep who should know better than I do, and he said he has never seen a major sale here where EVERY SINGLE bull is sired via AI and is proven with a DNA test for parentage.

Please post the operation, I want to see their AAA sale report, just curious.

That is loaded question, there may not be a sale in North Dakota that is AI bulls all through out and that's because there is no rational reason for Boyd, SAV, Baldridge, Crouthamel, Thomas, Shipwheel, Square B, put a name here; to not use their herd bulls and put those progeny in the sale. James I get where you're coming from, I just helped conduct a sale her locally in April, the lowest priced bulls were sons of sons, but a lot of that had to do with phenotype, the fall off was incredibly obvious and the owners of those bulls need to learn how to use knife.
[/quote]

I'm glad you acknowledge that.

The reason they don't get cut is that there is always a commercial buyer that starts the phone call by saying, "how much is he?"

Many people find it hard to cut a bull and make 1/2 what they would if they kept it intact and sold it to their neighbor.
 
76 Bar said:
Just look at that milk!!! Do you understand milk, and what it does?
Yes I do. Stacking well above average milk EPD's in a breed that supposedly is maternal is asking for trouble on all accounts.
Her dam is top 2% for milk and has raised a son and a daughter which we own, that were big, really big. They never went hungry, that's for sure.
All well & good but your Stonegate dam is a 10/2011 model with 2 progeny records and moreover calved recently. Obviously her CI is less than sterling.
Her calf right now can't even begin to take down all the milk she is producing, and she is nursing like crazy. I have video, momma's sack looked like 4 basketballs when she was born, it's coming down now.
Trust by "sack" you meant udder. Between you & me & the gate post, I wouldn't be bragging about basket ball sized quarters.

She has other progeny, I just don't own them. But judging from the Raindance calf that her daughter gave us recently, I wish I had more like her.
 
CreekAngus said:
I got a message from "Young" today. AAA corrected the genealogy of the bull and changed the epds. His bull turned into a calving ease bull with pretty much the same expected performance. I went back through the pedigree on his bull, that fella is double bred to Blackcap May 4136..............$5,000 he got a deal, I don't care if its Rainmaker, Rainfall, Raindance or Rainwhenever, he got a really nice bull, bred with great maternal influence. His bull ought to be a female making machine. If I had that guy on my place, we wouldn't touch a straw of semen for couple of years. SAV might have goofed up, but Kelly made a great purchase for Young. Looking forward to seeing his progeny.

I never ONCE said he got a bad bull, in fact I think he got a VERY GOOD bull.

All I was saying is that if you are breeding to get a specific animal in your herd, a mix up can cause issues generations down. This business is too hard to hit the reset button several times over.
 
************* said:
Lazy M said:
************* said:
Name an Angus operation in Kentucky where EVERY bull in the sale was a direct AI son? I asked my ABS rep who should know better than I do, and he said he has never seen a major sale here where EVERY SINGLE bull is sired via AI and is proven with a DNA test for parentage.

Please post the operation, I want to see their AAA sale report, just curious.

Start with Boyd's. Keep in mind that the ABS guy is a SALESMAN and will feed into your distorted self grandiosity if it will help him sell you a few more straws. I'm sure he rolls his eyes and chuckles as he pulls out of your place.

You misunderstood what I said. I'm talking a sale where EVERY bull is from a TOP AI sire. I'm not talking about the second string lineup.

Even Boyd is using a couple of his own bulls to sire the lots in that sale. One more thing according to NEFarmWife, if your "Daddy" set you up in the business you are disqualified from getting in on the Angus action. She said it, and we all know she is the "AUTHORITY" on Angus.

Grandiosity? Again, I think people like you affirm that we are making big inroads in a "Good ole boy" closed off business. At the end of the day, it's not about anything BUT the ANIMAL standing in front of you, and what we are producing is not exactly available everywhere you turn. You discount the effort and hard work that has gone into our operation as if everyone is doing this, not everyone is committed to what it takes to produce next level stock. You almost have me thinking that you are a competitor in Kentucky????

I feel at times that the seed stock producers in Kentucky have a conference call and they all agree to breed to the same sires, because each annual sale just has variations of the same theme. If that's what you like, great, but I like to take things in a different direction, the road less traveled. There is nothing wrong with playing it safe, but it becomes very boring at times. I think what really bothers you is that I don't have a carefully curated reputation to protect. I don't have to worry that if I say something, I might offend someone. I NEVER purposely set out to offend anyone, I just say what's on my mind. I could be the person who grins, shakes your hand, and tells you what you want to hear, but that's not me, for better or worse. I could also be the person who hides behind a made up screen name and lurks, again, not me. I had someone tell me the other day, that they could never post what I do, because they fear that their clients might get upset. What a horrible way to live your life, and to be constrained. I would not even be in the business if my hands were tied like that. Life has dealt me the cards where I can choose to breed what I like, versus what I have to breed in order to keep the lights on. Why do you think I admire Charles Herbster? Because he's got the lead view, he does what he wants, his view is not from an inferior position if you know what I mean.

As for the ABS guy, Ron and others on here that work with David can back me up when I say he is probably one of the most "by the book" people I have ever dealt with in the cattle business. He is an ABSOLUTE professional, A to Z. The notion that he laughs at his clients is completely false. He bends over backwards for his clients. In fact if more people in Kentucky would give him a call, they might be shocked at how their herds improve over a period of a few years. He knows that the majority of my semen purchases will not be ABS or Origen sires, but he helps me any way he can. Again, you are wrong and uninformed.

Branded. David is strictly by the book. He is actually known for that. But Luke knows David. They are practically neighbors.
 
76 Bar said:
Just look at that milk!!! Do you understand milk, and what it does?
Yes I do. Stacking well above average milk EPD's in a breed that supposedly is maternal is asking for trouble on all accounts.
Her dam is top 2% for milk and has raised a son and a daughter which we own, that were big, really big. They never went hungry, that's for sure.
All well & good but your Stonegate dam is a 10/2011 model with 2 progeny records and moreover calved recently. Obviously her CI is less than sterling.
Her calf right now can't even begin to take down all the milk she is producing, and she is nursing like crazy. I have video, momma's sack looked like 4 basketballs when she was born, it's coming down now.
Trust by "sack" you meant udder. Between you & me & the gate post, I wouldn't be bragging about basket ball sized quarters.

When I get well above average sized calves from her at weaning, I'm all good with her.

Her most recent calf

http://bit.ly/2Vup9Uh

Top 10% for WW, YW
Top15% for RADG
Top 4% for Milk
Top 35% for HP
Top 5% for $W
Top 10% for $F
Top 15% for $B
Top 15% for CW

I don't know about you, but those numbers work for ME. I know exactly what she is going to produce going forward, and it won't be puny.

I've got three of four sires in mind that could take the next calf up to an even higher level, I've got Blackcap May 4136 in her pedigree, this calf is not the end product, it's just part of the process, that is where you are confused.

If I have to explain more, then you are probably lost by now.
 
************* said:
Lazy M said:
************* said:
Name an Angus operation in Kentucky where EVERY bull in the sale was a direct AI son? I asked my ABS rep who should know better than I do, and he said he has never seen a major sale here where EVERY SINGLE bull is sired via AI and is proven with a DNA test for parentage.

Please post the operation, I want to see their AAA sale report, just curious.

Start with Boyd's. Keep in mind that the ABS guy is a SALESMAN and will feed into your distorted self grandiosity if it will help him sell you a few more straws. I'm sure he rolls his eyes and chuckles as he pulls out of your place.

You misunderstood what I said. I'm talking a sale where EVERY bull is from a TOP AI sire. I'm not talking about the second string lineup.

Even Boyd is using a couple of his own bulls to sire the lots in that sale. One more thing according to NEFarmWife, if your "Daddy" set you up in the business you are disqualified from getting in on the Angus action. She said it, and we all know she is the "AUTHORITY" on Angus.

Grandiosity? Again, I think people like you affirm that we are making big inroads in a "Good ole boy" closed off business. At the end of the day, it's not about anything BUT the ANIMAL standing in front of you, and what we are producing is not exactly available everywhere you turn. You discount the effort and hard work that has gone into our operation as if everyone is doing this, not everyone is committed to what it takes to produce next level stock. You almost have me thinking that you are a competitor in Kentucky????

I feel at times that the seed stock producers in Kentucky have a conference call and they all agree to breed to the same sires, because each annual sale just has variations of the same theme. If that's what you like, great, but I like to take things in a different direction, the road less traveled. There is nothing wrong with playing it safe, but it becomes very boring at times. I think what really bothers you is that I don't have a carefully curated reputation to protect. I don't have to worry that if I say something, I might offend someone. I NEVER purposely set out to offend anyone, I just say what's on my mind. I could be the person who grins, shakes your hand, and tells you what you want to hear, but that's not me, for better or worse. I could also be the person who hides behind a made up screen name and lurks, again, not me. I had someone tell me the other day, that they could never post what I do, because they fear that their clients might get upset. What a horrible way to live your life, and to be constrained. I would not even be in the business if my hands were tied like that. Life has dealt me the cards where I can choose to breed what I like, versus what I have to breed in order to keep the lights on. Why do you think I admire Charles Herbster? Because he's got the lead view, he does what he wants, his view is not from an inferior position if you know what I mean.

As for the ABS guy, Ron and others on here that work with David can back me up when I say he is probably one of the most "by the book" people I have ever dealt with in the cattle business. He is an ABSOLUTE professional, A to Z. The notion that he laughs at his clients is completely false. He bends over backwards for his clients. In fact if more people in Kentucky would give him a call, they might be shocked at how their herds improve over a period of a few years. He knows that the majority of my semen purchases will not be ABS or Origen sires, but he helps me any way he can. Again, you are wrong and uninformed.
I appreciate that you are proud of your operation and love that you are excited about the direction that you are headed. Keep in mind, though that you are basically following the same business model of every other seedstock producer. You breed what you think is a superior bull to what you think is a superior cow to produce what you hope are extraordinary progeny. The rest of your diatribes are worthless smoke.

From what I can tell your current herd is built on grass based overly efficient cows. You are trying to breed the herd up to be more performance based (and more marketable). I wish you luck.
 
Not everyone needs a Mercedes... for some a Chevy will do the job just fine.. Same goes for bulls. I've seen some purebreds that looked miserable, and of course some look great.. I band anything I don't think will have the phenotype or performance I want, or are from troublesome families.. and even so there have been some I regretted NOT banding (I never used them)

I'm glad Young got a bull that looks good and his numbers are good when the dust settled.
 
************* said:
CreekAngus said:
I got a message from "Young" today. AAA corrected the genealogy of the bull and changed the epds. His bull turned into a calving ease bull with pretty much the same expected performance. I went back through the pedigree on his bull, that fella is double bred to Blackcap May 4136..............$5,000 he got a deal, I don't care if its Rainmaker, Rainfall, Raindance or Rainwhenever, he got a really nice bull, bred with great maternal influence. His bull ought to be a female making machine. If I had that guy on my place, we wouldn't touch a straw of semen for couple of years. SAV might have goofed up, but Kelly made a great purchase for Young. Looking forward to seeing his progeny.

I never ONCE said he got a bad bull, in fact I think he got a VERY GOOD bull.

All I was saying is that if you are breeding to get a specific animal in your herd, a mix up can cause issues generations down. This business is too hard to hit the reset button several times over.
My post had nothing to do with you, I was passing on info Young gave me this morning and some that I found on my own.
 
************* said:
Lazy M said:
************* said:
Name an Angus operation in Kentucky where EVERY bull in the sale was a direct AI son? I asked my ABS rep who should know better than I do, and he said he has never seen a major sale here where EVERY SINGLE bull is sired via AI and is proven with a DNA test for parentage.

Please post the operation, I want to see their AAA sale report, just curious.

Start with Boyd's. Keep in mind that the ABS guy is a SALESMAN and will feed into your distorted self grandiosity if it will help him sell you a few more straws. I'm sure he rolls his eyes and chuckles as he pulls out of your place.

You misunderstood what I said. I'm talking a sale where EVERY bull is from a TOP AI sire. I'm not talking about the second string lineup.

Even Boyd is using a couple of his own bulls to sire the lots in that sale. One more thing according to NEFarmWife, if your "Daddy" set you up in the business you are disqualified from getting in on the Angus action. She said it, and we all know she is the "AUTHORITY" on Angus.

Grandiosity? Again, I think people like you affirm that we are making big inroads in a "Good ole boy" closed off business. At the end of the day, it's not about anything BUT the ANIMAL standing in front of you, and what we are producing is not exactly available everywhere you turn. You discount the effort and hard work that has gone into our operation as if everyone is doing this, not everyone is committed to what it takes to produce next level stock. You almost have me thinking that you are a competitor in Kentucky????

I feel at times that the seed stock producers in Kentucky have a conference call and they all agree to breed to the same sires, because each annual sale just has variations of the same theme. If that's what you like, great, but I like to take things in a different direction, the road less traveled. There is nothing wrong with playing it safe, but it becomes very boring at times. I think what really bothers you is that I don't have a carefully curated reputation to protect. I don't have to worry that if I say something, I might offend someone. I NEVER purposely set out to offend anyone, I just say what's on my mind. I could be the person who grins, shakes your hand, and tells you what you want to hear, but that's not me, for better or worse. I could also be the person who hides behind a made up screen name and lurks, again, not me. I had someone tell me the other day, that they could never post what I do, because they fear that their clients might get upset. What a horrible way to live your life, and to be constrained. I would not even be in the business if my hands were tied like that. Life has dealt me the cards where I can choose to breed what I like, versus what I have to breed in order to keep the lights on. Why do you think I admire Charles Herbster? Because he's got the lead view, he does what he wants, his view is not from an inferior position if you know what I mean.

As for the ABS guy, Ron and others on here that work with David can back me up when I say he is probably one of the most "by the book" people I have ever dealt with in the cattle business. He is an ABSOLUTE professional, A to Z. The notion that he laughs at his clients is completely false. He bends over backwards for his clients. In fact if more people in Kentucky would give him a call, they might be shocked at how their herds improve over a period of a few years. He knows that the majority of my semen purchases will not be ABS or Origen sires, but he helps me any way he can. Again, you are wrong and uninformed.

If you're going to put words in my mouth, please actually quote me. Thanks!
 
Boot Jack Bulls said:
After 19 pages of this BS, I am more glad then ever to stay out of the angus deal as much as possible!

Can you imagine us all in the same room?
 

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