MSU TCF REVOLUTION 4R

Help Support CattleToday:

CPL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
1,041
Reaction score
0
Alan have you seen the older photo of him? The picture that genex just had done looks very impressive, but the other two on the herfnet site are disappointing. His REA and IMF ratios will be interesting to watch, because right now on 21 calves they look great. I don't think I'd use him though.
 

Herefords.US

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
2,066
Reaction score
4
Location
North Central Texas
CPL":1or33954 said:
Alan have you seen the older photo of him? The picture that genex just had done looks very impressive, but the other two on the herfnet site are disappointing. His REA and IMF ratios will be interesting to watch, because right now on 21 calves they look great. I don't think I'd use him though.

I agree with you, Christian! Interesting mix of pedigree, but it also makes me worry about consistency in his offspring. As you said, he's worth watching, but I'd wait for another year or two of data before using him.

George
 
OP
Alan

Alan

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
9,515
Reaction score
4
Location
NW Oregon
CPL":1pmvi9r1 said:
Alan have you seen the older photo of him? The picture that genex just had done looks very impressive, but the other two on the herfnet site are disappointing. His REA and IMF ratios will be interesting to watch, because right now on 21 calves they look great. I don't think I'd use him though.

The other two pics of him was really surprising to me. If He was in my pasture as the weanling (?) his youngest pic, I probably would have cut him and shipped him. the next pic still does not impress me. But I really like how he turned out now. What I like about him is a 0.5 BW with a .61 ACC and a 101 YW with a .50 ACC. It's a nice spread between BW and YW. Like you, I don't know if his REA and IMF (okay marb) will hold up, but at .31 and .27 ACC it shouldn't fall too much, but I like the bulls with great carcuss traits. Things I don't like so much is how he looked as a calf and granddam was horned (I'm trying not to introduce too much horn). I'm pretty cautious about Online these days... ie; Moler, Get-R-Done... and Online, all young bulls the semen seemed to "go dry" too soon. But like the horns, Online is only 25% of the mix.

But since the Genex rep just fill my tank yesterday and had a special going I put a few straws in my tank... he was cheap and gives me another option on heifers.

Alan
 

KNERSIE

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,058
Reaction score
2
Location
3rd World
What I like about him is a 0.5 BW with a .61 ACC and a 101 YW with a .50 ACC. It's a nice spread between BW and YW.

That big a spread (more so the high YW) indicates that he is a later maturing animal, or in other words his long bone growth will continue for longer and he will continue to add more meat for longer before he starts to fatten.

The other two pics of him was really surprising to me. If He was in my pasture as the weanling (?) his youngest pic, I probably would have cut him and shipped him. the next pic still does not impress me. But I really like how he turned out now.

The two photos just confirmed what I just said. Chasing high ADG with disregard to FCR in growth tests will have that effect and before we know we shall relive the race for frame of the '70s and '80s
 
OP
Alan

Alan

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
9,515
Reaction score
4
Location
NW Oregon
I'm going to show my novice side again, what is FCR? I'm sure it will make since as soon as I know.

Also your statement on late maturing make perfect since to why he looks the way he does in his earliest pic.... reading your statement the light bulb came on.

Thanks,
Alan
 

Herefords.US

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
2,066
Reaction score
4
Location
North Central Texas
Alan":27yuh3tg said:
What I like about him is a 0.5 BW with a .61 ACC and a 101 YW with a .50 ACC. It's a nice spread between BW and YW. Like you, I don't know if his REA and IMF (okay marb) will hold up, but at .31 and .27 ACC it shouldn't fall too much, but I like the bulls with great carcuss traits.

IMNTBHO, the only EPD that this bull has that you MIGHT be able to hang your hat on is his BW EPD at this point. The accuracy levels of the other EPDs are so low that they are totally unreliable. All of the data collected on his progeny has been from one herd, a very GOOD herd, but only ONE herd. As I said before, I'd wait until some more data comes in, especially from a variety of different herds, before using this bull with any confidence.

George
 
OP
Alan

Alan

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
9,515
Reaction score
4
Location
NW Oregon
Herefords.US":1kadg15t said:
Alan":1kadg15t said:
What I like about him is a 0.5 BW with a .61 ACC and a 101 YW with a .50 ACC. It's a nice spread between BW and YW. Like you, I don't know if his REA and IMF (okay marb) will hold up, but at .31 and .27 ACC it shouldn't fall too much, but I like the bulls with great carcuss traits.

IMNTBHO, the only EPD that this bull has that you MIGHT be able to hang your hat on is his BW EPD at this point. The accuracy levels of the other EPDs are so low that they are totally unreliable. All of the data collected on his progeny has been from one herd, a very GOOD herd, but only ONE herd. As I said before, I'd wait until some more data comes in, especially from a variety of different herds, before using this bull with any confidence.

George

Both you and Harley make some very good, eye opening points. I don't like the late maturing factor much, but as said, it makes better sense of why he looks like he does in the earliest pic. I would like to see higher ACC on the carcuss traits. I wish I would have noticed the 21 or so offspring. But I was at a show with my tank and I like what the Genex rep was selling. But in all honesty, he will be a fun one to watch and he was cheap. Now that he is in the Genex line up he should be getting calves on the ground pretty quick. The other factor I liked about him is just what you mentioned George, he come from a very good herd.

Alan

Alan
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
1,177
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
I'm a Genex rep meself and I don't like the bull at all-his mother isn't good enough uddered for my liking and the catalogue picture the bull looks a bit tightly wound for my tastes. My opinion really doesn't matter much though as Polled Herefords are a moot issue with my customers I've never sold a straw of it in almost 20 years.
 

rocket2222

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
1,119
Reaction score
0
He was born in 2005, I would of thought if his first calves in 2007 had looked half way decent, Boyd and MSU [ part owners in the bull ], would have jumped in there and used him, and we would have seen calves born at all three breeders in 2008. As it stands now from looking at the AHA website, only Rausch used him again in 2008. His calving ease and high marbling scores will get him used some, and I assume that's why Genex picked him up. Might make a good terminal bull if you retain ownership of the calves.
 

Spartan

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Well I am the manager at MSU Beef Barn and I calved out and raised MSU TCF Revolution 4R till we sold him at the NWSS in Denver as a yearling. Norther Rancher you are completely wrong, I look at his mother every day and she produces more milk than 2 normal herefords combined. Her udder is fine I have never had to touch it. His mother is one of the best cows of any breed i have seen. One or our best heifer calves in this years calf crop is a Revoultion out of a two year old. He is going to hold true on his BW for sure. We are using him again this year. He is the only bull in the Hereford Breed that is under a 1 on BW over 100 on YW and above .5 for both IMF and REA. Your not going to find many bulls with better numbers. You talk about the earlier pictures that was taken at Rauschs after he had covered cows from May till August. I am sure if you seen most bulls after covering cows all summer they have on their work cloths. If any of you have any questions about the bull or his progeny i would be happy to answer them. And for those of you like Northern Rancher who like to speak about cattle you dont know anything about, please do your research and get your facts straight before you run other peoples cattle into the ground.
Sincerely
Cody Sankey
 

KNERSIE

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
7,058
Reaction score
2
Location
3rd World
Spartan wrote:
Your not going to find many bulls with better numbers.

Better for whom?

northtexas wrote:
Numbers don't make cattle.

I'll refine this statement to numbers ALONE don't make cattle

PS, welcome to the board Spartan, looking forward to your input, but be prepared that we won't neccesarily agree on everything. Variety is the spice of life.
 

Spartan

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
North Texas-
Your certaninly right every one is entiled to their opinion. But i will tell you that i am a sixth generation cattle producer who's family has had registered cattle for over 100 years, so i would say i am bit more than a University hand living off tax dollars. but i am sure your livestock heritage and experience traces back farther than that......

Knersie-
You are right numbers are not the answer and in fact i dont like ever selecting for just numbers but this bull just happens to combine these outstanding numbers with a good cow family and good phenotype. I am not saying he is the answer for every cow in the breed. I am saying he offers some unique things that the Hereford breed doesnt have a lot of. I know everyone doesnt have to agree and thats the beauty we can do what ever we want in the USA. But people like NR are talking about things he has no facts on. I know for a fact he has never seen his mother in person. I just decided that i would join on and answer any questions anyone on this board might have about this bull. Rather than giving people who dont know anything about him a chance to throw in there 2 cents.
 
OP
Alan

Alan

Well-known member
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
9,515
Reaction score
4
Location
NW Oregon
Spartan, thank you for jumping in, I'm (unlike the media and some) am one that believes, " innocent until proven guility". I really appreiciate your input on Revolution, I think he will be a interesting bull to keep an eye on. I have always respected Northernrancher's input, but we all have opinions, it's up to us to chew it and decide. Two points to this post, I'm just an wanna be, hobby guy wanting to enjoy my hobby, with the goal of making something out of it ($$). But I love the Polled Hereford breed and my hobby, so for it's a hobby that I can afford, since I lose money every year... buying heifers, buying semen, AI school, buying hay and grain... my point is made, helping to support the real cattlemen and women. I hope you will continue to be a part of this board and contribute expert knowledge to us "hobby, wanna be and claim to be ranchers. Bunch of personalities on the board please don't get offended and leave, with time everyone on the board will always show themselves for who they are.

northtexas":fj8t6i5n said:
In fact, I'd take his opinion much more seriously than yours. He is a real world rancher earning a living of his cattle. You are a University hand living off tax dollars.

Second point, again I have read and respected Northernranchers post and have a lot of respect for him. From what I can tell he doesn't need anyone fighting his fights.... Been here for a few years, this is the kind of stuff that runs the great cattle men off. Not just directed at you northtexas, just hoping to give Spartan a fair chance.

Alan
 

rocket2222

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
1,119
Reaction score
0
Spartan":zh63cgpm said:
Well I am the manager at MSU Beef Barn and I calved out and raised MSU TCF Revolution 4R till we sold him at the NWSS in Denver as a yearling. Norther Rancher you are completely wrong, I look at his mother every day and she produces more milk than 2 normal herefords combined. Her udder is fine I have never had to touch it. His mother is one of the best cows of any breed i have seen. One or our best heifer calves in this years calf crop is a Revoultion out of a two year old. He is going to hold true on his BW for sure. We are using him again this year. He is the only bull in the Hereford Breed that is under a 1 on BW over 100 on YW and above .5 for both IMF and REA. Your not going to find many bulls with better numbers. You talk about the earlier pictures that was taken at Rauschs after he had covered cows from May till August. I am sure if you seen most bulls after covering cows all summer they have on their work cloths. If any of you have any questions about the bull or his progeny i would be happy to answer them. And for those of you like Northern Rancher who like to speak about cattle you dont know anything about, please do your research and get your facts straight before you run other peoples cattle into the ground.
Sincerely
Cody Sankey

How many cows did he breed during that time period, The AHA has only 14 calves listed for 2007 at Rausch's.
 

Northern Rancher

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
1,177
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
Guess I'm wrong but a Hereford cow with that long of teats and rear suspension isn't my ideal Hereford cow-like I said I don't like him-you can love him up all you want that's your business.The fact that his mother milks as hard as she does makes him even a worse prospect for my customer base. what works in Michigan might not necessarily work where I ranch. In my opinion for a bull to be marketed A'I the cattle have to be better in their udders and feet and legs than the cattle they are being used on-artificial insemination is a tool to improve cattle-the fact that his mother is a high volume milk producer doesn't mean much in the market I sell into. I might not know much but I was my companies high unit salesman in Canada two years-most of my sales and we all know how little us commercial men know about cattle-heck we just raise them for a living. When I'm selling semen I like to point out what I see as the bulls flaws as I see them-lord knows there are enough people that will glad hand and blow smoke up your butt to make a sale.
 

Herefords.US

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
2,066
Reaction score
4
Location
North Central Texas
Spartan":2pv1lorl said:
Well I am the manager at MSU Beef Barn and I calved out and raised MSU TCF Revolution 4R till we sold him at the NWSS in Denver as a yearling. Norther Rancher you are completely wrong, I look at his mother every day and she produces more milk than 2 normal herefords combined. Her udder is fine I have never had to touch it. His mother is one of the best cows of any breed i have seen. One or our best heifer calves in this years calf crop is a Revoultion out of a two year old. He is going to hold true on his BW for sure. We are using him again this year. He is the only bull in the Hereford Breed that is under a 1 on BW over 100 on YW and above .5 for both IMF and REA. Your not going to find many bulls with better numbers. You talk about the earlier pictures that was taken at Rauschs after he had covered cows from May till August. I am sure if you seen most bulls after covering cows all summer they have on their work cloths. If any of you have any questions about the bull or his progeny i would be happy to answer them. And for those of you like Northern Rancher who like to speak about cattle you dont know anything about, please do your research and get your facts straight before you run other peoples cattle into the ground.
Sincerely
Cody Sankey

First of all, welcome to the CT boards!

As someone else pointed out, there are a number of folks who post here that are very opinionated. I'm one of them!

Any problem I'd have with using Revolution comes from his sire's side of his pedigree, BUT I do have a question for you concerning his dam - since you've so strongly defended her. You say:
she produces more milk than 2 normal herefords combined

If that is the case then why did the two natural calves she has recorded data on (looking at her progeny report) only wean at a 94.5% average? Revolution was her first calf, and she did have him at only 21+ months of age, but his adjusted weaning weight was only 89% (WITH the generous adjustment he got!). The next year, calving as a solid three year old and obviously after at least one round of flushing, her Battle Ground bull calf only weaned at 100% (peer group average? - or was he a "peer group" of 1?)

George
 
Top