Mesa Power & Roberts County Water District

[Running Arrow Bill]

As perhaps a number of you/us Texans are aware of, the "Mesa Power" and "Roberts County Water District (cf: T. Boone Pickens stuff) "cartels" are rapidly beginning to acquire easements and/or properties in the Texas Panhandle and toward the DFW Metroplex more or less along US 83 and US 287. The purpose: To construct a mega-watt power line and water lines. We are looking at HUGE powerline towers, etc.

Question:

Are any of you going to be encroached or otherwise affected by these utilility lines? Would like to have anyone's comments, etc. on all this!

 

[Jim62]

Had not heard of that one. That's not related to P. Rick Perry's TTC, is it? Sounds like more of the same stuff.

On the brighter side, we are hearing down here that the TTC is all but dead and buried. The TxDOT is under sunset revue this year and is really catching some heat over all the secrecy and corruption involved in that deal. Maybe all Perry will be able to leave as his "legacy" will be some of his beautiful hair.

 

[skyline]

Had not heard of that one. That's not related to P. Rick Perry's TTC, is it? Sounds like more of the same stuff.

On the brighter side, we are hearing down here that the TTC is all but dead and buried. The TxDOT is under sunset revue this year and is really catching some heat over all the secrecy and corruption involved in that deal. Maybe all Perry will be able to leave as his "legacy" will be some of his beautiful hair.

If you haven't read the Sunset Commission staff report, you should. It was recently published and is online at http://www.sunset.state.tx.us/81strepor ... /txdot.pdf

The report recommends abolishing the TTC and replacing it with a singular Texas Transportation Commissioner. It also recommends a legislative oversight committee and gives TxDOT 4 years to fix it's problems. This may be obvious to everyone by now, but it looks to me like TxDOT has lost the support of the Texas legislature.

 

[skyline]

As perhaps a number of you/us Texans are aware of, the "Mesa Power" and "Roberts County Water District (cf: T. Boone Pickens stuff) "cartels" are rapidly beginning to acquire easements and/or properties in the Texas Panhandle and toward the DFW Metroplex more or less along US 83 and US 287. The purpose: To construct a mega-watt power line and water lines. We are looking at HUGE powerline towers, etc.

Question:

Are any of you going to be encroached or otherwise affected by these utilility lines? Would like to have anyone's comments, etc. on all this!

I have been trying to keep up with this deal. My understanding is that Pickens is buying up groundwater rights and is planning to build a huge windpower field in the Panhandle and that he is going to co-locate the power transmission mains and the water lines in a joint use right of way from the panhandle to the DFW metroplex. It's a huge project in the billions of dollars. Is the water district that he has formed capable of acquiring property through eminent domain? It must be good to have money and a battalion of lawyers.

The last two weeks I have gotten a real taste of how little the deed to your property is worth. I'm getting my education at the hands of some oil and gas folks that are trying to steal some of my best property to develop a gas well.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Over the past several weeks there have been several public meetings to "educate" the public about this power/water deal. Yes, it will happen. And, yes, if a landowner doesn't agree to the terms it is my understanding that the "power of the cartel" can exercise it's legal options to "acquire property".

With a project in the billions of dollars and a lot of politics, etc., involved, and plans to supply water from the vast ogalalah water aquifer to the predicted shortages of water in the other Texas regions, yet I see it happening. Additionally, since Texas is the major USA supplier of predictable WIND, and especially in the Panhandle region...yes, wind turbines will and are happening...and, probably to supply the "grid" via the new transmission lines.

There is rarely a week that goes by that 2 or 3 LONG trailers hauling the "propellers" of those turbines doesn't go down US 83 in front of our place. There is a lot of wind and oil/gas equipment and materials that go along this route on a weekly basis...yes, heading North.

Unless I am totally psychotic and comatose, this Wind, Water, Power thing is gonna happen; and, probably sooner than one expects. Info and all we've heard is that this stuff will really take off, construction-wise in 2009...property "acquisitions" and easements are already in the initial stages of this project...according to the Landmen of these developers.

 

[skyline]

I don't have a problem with massive projects to solve energy and water shortfalls in metropolitan areas. Although if I lived in the Panhandle, I would have a big problem with the transfer of the groundwater under my property to the DFW area.

Here's my concern. This is a private project funded by a private individual, who stands to make big $ off of it. Similar to the Ross Perot/Alliance Airport project north of Fort Worth. I don't think public funds should have been used on the Alliance Airport project. And I don't think that eminent domain should be allowed in any form or fashion on a project like this Mesa project. If it's in the public interest, let it be done by the government. If it's done by an individual or a corporation (however he masks it) then don't give them the ability to use eminent domain. Let him negotiate in good faith with the property owners as a private individual or corporation.

Am I missing something?

 

[Parkerson Cattle Co.]

pump the ogallala dry, and west Texas has no more water.. this is a bad bad bad bad bad and i repeat BAD idea. The ogallala is already running low in many different states, and it is continually dropping. Sorry person who would take water from a region that needs it worse than another. Once the water is gone here, the people will be gone. there will be no more Lubbock, amarillo, etc. No water to survive, you would have to move elsewhere.

 

[TexasBred]

I don't have a problem with massive projects to solve energy and water shortfalls in metropolitan areas. Although if I lived in the Panhandle, I would have a big problem with the transfer of the groundwater under my property to the DFW area.

Here's my concern. This is a private project funded by a private individual, who stands to make big $ off of it. Similar to the Ross Perot/Alliance Airport project north of Fort Worth. I don't think public funds should have been used on the Alliance Airport project. And I don't think that eminent domain should be allowed in any form or fashion on a project like this Mesa project. If it's in the public interest, let it be done by the government. If it's done by an individual or a corporation (however he masks it) then don't give them the ability to use eminent domain. Let him negotiate in good faith with the property owners as a private individual or corporation.

Am I missing something?

Skyline this would take some study and probably a team of attorneys. I know pipeline companies DO have the eminent domain hammer to hold over your head but O&G companies do not and I don't know that privately owned power companies would either. Just the name "Boone Pickens" is enough to make me sit straight up in bed and scream.

 

[Earl Thigpen]

I haven't heard about the West Texas deal but we have a similar issue with San Antonio buying up ground water from the Gulf Coast Aquafer. Deal was voted in a couple of years ago pushed by that shyster Perry. It was one of those negative vote thing where you had to install a ground water conservation district in the county and if not, San Antonio could buy all the water they wanted and there wouldn't be a thing anyone could do about it.

The vote came up again a couple of weeks ago and no one is talking. I doubt it passed. Folks in Lavaca County are not up to speed on things like this. If it means an additional $10 tax they ain't goin' for it.

As far as the eminent domain issue, the Texas Leg. sure have drug their feet over reform of ED laws. I'm sure most of you remember the US Supreme Court really stuck it up our a$$' a few years ago when they agreed with one of the eastern states using ED to confiscate private landowners property simply because they could generate more tax base if the property was used for something else. Texas Leg. said they were override that but haven't done it yet.

 

[skyline]

There's a good article on this topic in the May 29 issue of Livestock Weekly. Turns out Mr. Pickens used a new law that was passed by Texas Legislature last year to form a fresh water supply district on eight acres of his ranch in Roberts County with directors that include his ranch manager, the ranch managers wife, and 3 Mesa associates in Dallas. The district, under Texas law has taxing authority, condemnation authority under eminent domain, and the authority to sell bonds.

A second new law that was passed last year gives the fresh water district the ability to use it's condemnation authority to piggyback power lines in a co-located right of way with the water lines.

They say that neither of these two laws was passed with Pickens in mind. The first was to clear up some problems in the Houston area with fresh water districts. However, it appears that Pickens has figured out how to use the new laws to his benefit.

The article also says that Pickens has ordered 667 wind turbines from General Electric for the project.

Like I said, it must be nice to have money and a battalion of attorneys.

 

[skyline]

Skyline this would take some study and probably a team of attorneys. I know pipeline companies DO have the eminent domain hammer to hold over your head but O&G companies do not and I don't know that privately owned power companies would either. Just the name "Boone Pickens" is enough to make me sit straight up in bed and scream.

I'm finding that Oil and Gas companies don't need eminent domain. They just find the poor smucks that own the surface without the minerals, get leases from the absentee mineral owners, and have their way with the surface owners... Seems to be a sport.

 

[TexasBred]

Skyline unfortunately you are right on. Part of the problem of having mineral owners AND surface right owners. All the guy can do that owns the surface right is try to negotiate some damages at best. Already been thru that.

 

[Lammie]

Skyline unfortunately you are right on. Part of the problem of having mineral owners AND surface right owners. All the guy can do that owns the surface right is try to negotiate some damages at best. Already been thru that.

So what you are saying, and I am trying to clarify this in my own mind here, is that if you own the surface rights only, Chesapeak, or however you spell it, is going to come onto my land, against my wishes, and put in a gas well, injection well, what have you? Even if I do not desire them to be there?

Not to fling poo, but that's not what I was led to believe. And even so, it isn't as though they are doing it for nothing. Surface owners are very well compensated, and in a lot of cases, there are improvements in the way of cattle guards, pipe fence and roads. I have seen it a lot around here. Every pad alone is bringing 50k around here, and I am sure that is negotiable. Inconvenience me, please.

I have not heard anyone say that they had a well on their property when they didn't want one. I may be wrong. No one around here is gonna look that gift horse in the mouth. Even so, I cant see anyone having a well forced on them.

I may be wrong, though. Lord knows I am a newbie at this.

 

[TexasBred]

Lammie I'd gladly move the wells off our place and put them on yours. And yes prices for pads are negotiable but you in effect give away the use of 2-3 acres of land with each pad for as long as the gas well is in operation. Covered over 8-10 inches deep with white gravel it's useless for anything else. And the O&G company WILL put the well where they want it.

Only a few months ago a man in Cleburne who owned surface rights only to his 12 acre place went to court with EOG to try and keep them from placing the the drill sight on his place. (12 acres out of 640+ acres). The judge ruled in favor of EOG and the man got a paltry $10,000 for the site. Sure you can get a little bit of fencing and a nice cattle guard entrance and maybe a little cosmetic work but fact remains they'll put it thru the roof of your house if that's the best location and then worry about compensation when you end up in court. Mineral rights always take precedence over surface rights in Texas.

 

[Lammie]

Well, that's interesting. It came up when I had the place for sale last year and I wanted to retain the mineral rights. Think I will keep my mouth shut!

 

[Frankie]

A major lawsuit was just settled here last week. Shell had leased land, drilled, and paid royalties to the owners. But the owners found out that they weren't being paid all they had coming, so they sued. Thirteen years later they won a settlement for what they were owed and interest. Plus the jury tacked on big bucks for punitive damages. The defendants are, of course, appealing. They don't dispute that they cheated the people and are willing to pay the actual damages and interest. But they don't think the punitive damages are warranted! For 13 years they've refused to provide documents to the plantiffs, changed law firms, found any way they could to put off the trial, and now they say why should we be punished? You're right that it helps to have a deep pocketbook and a string of attorneys.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n25446018

 

[TexasBred]

A major lawsuit was just settled here last week. Shell had leased land, drilled, and paid royalties to the owners. But the owners found out that they weren't being paid all they had coming, so they sued. Thirteen years later they won a settlement for what they were owed and interest. Plus the jury tacked on big bucks for punitive damages. The defendants are, of course, appealing. They don't dispute that they cheated the people and are willing to pay the actual damages and interest. But they don't think the punitive damages are warranted! For 13 years they've refused to provide documents to the plantiffs, changed law firms, found any way they could to put off the trial, and now they say why should we be punished? You're right that it helps to have a deep pocketbook and a string of attorneys.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n25446018

Sad but true. And these folks that filed the suit still may never collect a penny in their lifetime. Oil companies still have a hard time understanding that the oil and/or gas underneath the property still belongs to the mineral owner and the O&G Co. is only entitled to a portion of the proceeds of the sale of the oil/gas according to the "Lease" executed as compensation for the drilling and extraction and sale of the oil and/or gas. I know in our case the gas company sells the gas to their own dam pipeline company and charges us for it. Lowers the sales price and increases the delivery charge.