DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
BRANDONM2 - NOVATECH - GUEST 25 - AND ALL CATTLETODAY MEMBERS Please re-read my post on page 5. Misunderstanding on your part - BIG apology on MY part!
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS":2buat1xt said:BRANDONM2 - NOVATECH - GUEST 25 - AND ALL CATTLETODAY MEMBERS Please re-read my post on page 5. Misunderstanding on your part - BIG apology on MY part!
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS":1vfzwrga said:BRANDONM2 - NOVATECH - GUEST 25 - AND ALL CATTLETODAY MEMBERS Please re-read my post on page 5. Misunderstanding on your part - BIG apology on MY part!
DOC HARRIS
I think guest25 has the knowledge. he just needs to let the angus deal go and share more of what he does knowKMacGinley":1i9c6mqh said:Couple of thoughts:
More Knowledgable about Cattle.... Doc or Guest25? Gotta go with Doc.
Doc has raised cattle all his life, Doesn't have any now. Guess when he sold the last one, all that knowledge evaporated.
Corn is going to get higher and higher in price.
Feeding large framed cattle corn is not going to be efficient.
Cattle that gain on Forage, which is what they are intended to do anyway, are going to be the ticket.
Smaller framed cattle gain better, more efficiently on higher forage diets.
More cows per acre, weaning chunky 4 and 5 frame 550 lb calves always makes more money than behemoth 1600 lb cows weaning 650 lb calves. Why?
1. more calves weaned... less calving difficulty
2. lighter calves higher price
3. Cows last longer.... less weight, less stress on feet and legs etc.
4. Calves being smaller framed will fatten more easily on a byproduct/forage regime with less corn in the mix.
Talk all you want about Larger Framed "More feed efficient"
cattle, but the feed that you think they are going to be more efficient on is going to be priced out of your reach.
KMacGinley":1xn1jy9n said:Couple of thoughts:
More Knowledgable about Cattle.... Doc or Guest25? Gotta go with Doc.
Doc has raised cattle all his life, Doesn't have any now. Guess when he sold the last one, all that knowledge evaporated.
Corn is going to get higher and higher in price.
Feeding large framed cattle corn is not going to be efficient.
Cattle that gain on Forage, which is what they are intended to do anyway, are going to be the ticket.
Smaller framed cattle gain better, more efficiently on higher forage diets.
More cows per acre, weaning chunky 4 and 5 frame 550 lb calves always makes more money than behemoth 1600 lb cows weaning 650 lb calves. Why?
1. more calves weaned... less calving difficulty
2. lighter calves higher price
3. Cows last longer.... less weight, less stress on feet and legs etc.
4. Calves being smaller framed will fatten more easily on a byproduct/forage regime with less corn in the mix.
Talk all you want about Larger Framed "More feed efficient"
cattle, but the feed that you think they are going to be more efficient on is going to be priced out of your reach.
novatech i know you like too say that theres times that your mouth get's ahead ahead of your brain. this is one time i have too agree with you. all the money you spend on proven animals will not buy the experiance some of these folks have. they make claims from just that... experiance.. no university test can match itnovatech":11kpr0mw said:KMacGinley":11kpr0mw said:Couple of thoughts:
More Knowledgable about Cattle.... Doc or Guest25? Gotta go with Doc.
Doc has raised cattle all his life, Doesn't have any now. Guess when he sold the last one, all that knowledge evaporated.
Corn is going to get higher and higher in price.
Feeding large framed cattle corn is not going to be efficient.
Cattle that gain on Forage, which is what they are intended to do anyway, are going to be the ticket.
Smaller framed cattle gain better, more efficiently on higher forage diets.
More cows per acre, weaning chunky 4 and 5 frame 550 lb calves always makes more money than behemoth 1600 lb cows weaning 650 lb calves. Why?
1. more calves weaned... less calving difficulty
2. lighter calves higher price
3. Cows last longer.... less weight, less stress on feet and legs etc.
4. Calves being smaller framed will fatten more easily on a byproduct/forage regime with less corn in the mix.
Talk all you want about Larger Framed "More feed efficient"
cattle, but the feed that you think they are going to be more efficient on is going to be priced out of your reach.
Feed efficient cattle have been shown to be efficient on what ever is given them, grass or grain.
And one more time, statements that are meant to sound like facts don,t make them facts. I have asked for research data that backup your claims but as of yet have not seen any.
Data that I have read indicates that feed efficiency is an individule trait not a size trait.
id like to add though. im not gonna debate with a man what cattle i think would work best in his area. weather its west texas,idaho, new york if he's been at it a awile he should be well aware. ive always lived in the south and youll see a mix of every thing. even seen highlander some hobbist brought in that wound up razor thin from the heat. you can't convert feed well if you not tolerent of the areaBrandonm2":30svfw4r said:I don't think this is ever going to be settled in a debate here. Only trial and error and who lasts in this business is going too decide which phenotype of cattle is best. I am a little disappointed though that after ~9000 years of cattle ranching and ~300 years of scientific cattle breeding that AT LEAST 11 frame scores of cattle STILL have their champions within the beef biz.
ALACOWMAN":1xi58qto said:id like to add though. im not gonna debate with a man what cattle i think would work best in his area. weather its west texas,idaho, new york if he's been at it a awile he should be well aware. ive always lived in the south and youll see a mix of every thing. even seen highlander some hobbist brought in that wound up razor thin from the heat. you can't convert feed well if you not tolerent of the areaBrandonm2":1xi58qto said:I don't think this is ever going to be settled in a debate here. Only trial and error and who lasts in this business is going too decide which phenotype of cattle is best. I am a little disappointed though that after ~9000 years of cattle ranching and ~300 years of scientific cattle breeding that AT LEAST 11 frame scores of cattle STILL have their champions within the beef biz.
heck thats already here .Brandonm2":3bx55k8a said:ALACOWMAN":3bx55k8a said:id like to add though. im not gonna debate with a man what cattle i think would work best in his area. weather its west texas,idaho, new york if he's been at it a awile he should be well aware. ive always lived in the south and youll see a mix of every thing. even seen highlander some hobbist brought in that wound up razor thin from the heat. you can't convert feed well if you not tolerent of the areaBrandonm2":3bx55k8a said:I don't think this is ever going to be settled in a debate here. Only trial and error and who lasts in this business is going too decide which phenotype of cattle is best. I am a little disappointed though that after ~9000 years of cattle ranching and ~300 years of scientific cattle breeding that AT LEAST 11 frame scores of cattle STILL have their champions within the beef biz.
Obviously, cattle in Montana need more hair and backfat than do cattle in Alabama. Somebody in Guatemala probably needs less hair, a thicker hide, and more Brahman blood than most of us would recommend here. Environmental variation is not the primary reason for the VAST diversity in American cattle though. At some point, pride of ownership and raw stubborness takes over. Are 1800 lb cows too large??? Are 600 lb mini cows too small??? I would probably answer YES to both questions; but then I am no more authority than the people who are championing those extremes.won't.
- At some point economics are going to take over and the market and environment will dictate what we can make money at and what