Lowlines

[Brandonm2]

According to an article in Hobbyfarms.com (sorry, I know I will read anything that has a link to the Cattletoday boards) http://www.hobbyfarms.com/livestock-and ... 15001.aspx

there are height standards to be a minii.....

"According to the International Miniature Cattle Breeders Society and Registry (IMCBSR), any bovine 3 years of age or older measuring 42 inches or under at its hips is a miniature; a second classification, "midsize miniature," exists for minis over 42 inches and up to 48 inches tall. International Miniature Zebu Association cattle, however, are measured behind their Brahma-type humps and mustn't exceed 42 inches at 3 years of age. The American Hereford Association stipulates that Miniature Herefords must tape 43 inches or smaller; "classic miniatures" can be up to 48 inches tall. Lowlines (Miniature Angus) may be 42 inches high, as can Dexter cows; Dexter bulls can be two inches taller."

A mature cow who is only 42 inches is smaller than a frame 1.

 

[Schnurrbart]

According to an article in Hobbyfarms.com (sorry, I know I will read anything that has a link to the Cattletoday boards) http://www.hobbyfarms.com/livestock-and ... 15001.aspx

there are height standards to be a minii.....

"According to the International Miniature Cattle Breeders Society and Registry (IMCBSR), any bovine 3 years of age or older measuring 42 inches or under at its hips is a miniature; a second classification, "midsize miniature," exists for minis over 42 inches and up to 48 inches tall. International Miniature Zebu Association cattle, however, are measured behind their Brahma-type humps and mustn't exceed 42 inches at 3 years of age. The American Hereford Association stipulates that Miniature Herefords must tape 43 inches or smaller; "classic miniatures" can be up to 48 inches tall. Lowlines (Miniature Angus) may be 42 inches high, as can Dexter cows; Dexter bulls can be two inches taller."

A mature cow who is only 42 inches is smaller than a frame 1.

OK St U calls them a separate breed of cattle. Not miniature.

 

[Brandonm2]

A Lowline cow that is LESS than 42 inches CAN be registered as a "miniature" with the International Miniature Cattle Breeders Society and Registry (IMCBSR). Prior to the developments of extremes in cattle mature sizes, all commercially viable breeds of cattle were thought to fit in the 1-7 frame score scale. A miniature is thus anything less than a frame score 1. Mini-Herefords are probably amoung the most "pure" bloodlines in the Hereford breeds. They descend from frame score 1 Herefords that were continually bred for the last 35 years to be even smaller (much like the Lowlines in the Angus breed).

 

[backhoeboogie]

So these angus running around here in the heat getting smaller and smaller each generation or evolving into low lines?

White tail deer are sort of the same here in Texas. :lol: :lol:

 

[Brandonm2]

So these angus running around here in the heat getting smaller and smaller each generation or evolving into low lines?

White tail deer are sort of the same here in Texas. :lol: :lol:

They could NOT evolve into Lowline Anguses because the Lowline is a linebred group of Angus developed at a research station in Australia. They COULD evolve into miniature Angus's though since a mini is just a cow that is less than 42 inches tall.

I think some of us in Alabama, West Virginia, and Texas are in the first stages of watching the deer evolve into goats!*!*!

 

[3MR]

I've never understood how the small breeds (any of them) fit into the beef business, but someone must be making money with them.

I priced a pair of Hereford steers to train as oxen. The guy wanted $1500 each for them. 2 weeks later he had sold them. I couldn;t believe it, but it just goes to show.

dun

Man I want his marketing guru

 

[Schnurrbart]

I've never understood how the small breeds (any of them) fit into the beef business, but someone must be making money with them.

I priced a pair of Hereford steers to train as oxen. The guy wanted $1500 each for them. 2 weeks later he had sold them. I couldn;t believe it, but it just goes to show.

dun

Man I want his marketing guru

Check out this marketing on Lowlines. Last year in KC.
Total Average
4 Bred Fullblood Females $29,500 $7,375
6 Open Fullblood Heifers $40,650 $6,775
1 Bred Purebred Heifer $4,500 $4,500
3 Bred 3/4 Heifers $7,000 $2,333
4 Open Purebred Heifer $5,800 $1,450
7 Open 3/4 Heifers $29,500 $1,764
1 Open Halfblood Heifer $3,600 $3,600
2 Fullblood Bulls $9,750 $4,875

3 Embryo Packages $11,400 $3,800
(6 embryos per package)

 

[3MR]

Yeah, I read the Lowlines sales report shortly after the sale. I still think they are a novelty breed though. They are worth more as pets than beef. I know you would have a hard time selling lowlines at any of the sales around here.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We have a rancher in the area who is getting into grass fed beef, and he purchased a number of Lowlines for that purpose. I walked through his cows to check them out. They were generally calm, small, and stocky, but their calves were not real consistent.

Unless they finish exceptionally well I would rather go with some other British breed.

 

[OK Jeanne]

An organic ranch that bought some of our purebred
murray grey weaned heifers is planning to breed them
to the lowline bull "The Machine" for their first calf.
They are getting some outstanding prices for even
half-blood lowline heifers.

 

[Tod Dague]

So these angus running around here in the heat getting smaller and smaller each generation or evolving into low lines?

White tail deer are sort of the same here in Texas. :lol: :lol:

They could NOT evolve into Lowline Anguses because the Lowline is a linebred group of Angus developed at a research station in Australia. They COULD evolve into miniature Angus's though since a mini is just a cow that is less than 42 inches tall.

I think some of us in Alabama, West Virginia, and Texas are in the first stages of watching the deer evolve into goats!*!*!

Lowline has a breed up program (or breed down as it may). As long as they are Angus they can be registered as full bloods once they meet the height requirements. I've done some ET work with a guy who is getting into Lowlines and this is what he was telling me.

 

[KMacGinley]

You guys are totally missing the point. To get cattle to finish on grass, they need to be smaller framed. Feeding out on grain and taking commodity or even CAB prices if you are happy with that requires bigger growthier cattle.

These grass feeding guys laugh their butts off at us for spending money on feed and equipment, while the ones that have their act together are getting well over $1.00 per lb live weight with no feed expense.

 

[Schnurrbart]

So these angus running around here in the heat getting smaller and smaller each generation or evolving into low lines?

White tail deer are sort of the same here in Texas. :lol: :lol:

They could NOT evolve into Lowline Anguses because the Lowline is a linebred group of Angus developed at a research station in Australia. They COULD evolve into miniature Angus's though since a mini is just a cow that is less than 42 inches tall.

I think some of us in Alabama, West Virginia, and Texas are in the first stages of watching the deer evolve into goats!*!*!

Lowline has a breed up program (or breed down as it may). As long as they are Angus they can be registered as full bloods once they meet the height requirements. I've done some ET work with a guy who is getting into Lowlines and this is what he was telling me.

These were not developed in Australia. They imported Aberdeen Angus in the 20s and did research with them. The animals were not crossed with any other breed and thus remained pure Aberdeen. They have to have dna done to prove that they carry the Aberdeen genes before registering. Some people now are breeding them for smallness but many are just breeding the normal small stocky cow that angus used to be. I looked at some Lowline/Tarentaise cross heifers Saturday along side of same age purebred Tarentaise heifers and there was about 4" difference in height at 9 months and maybe 5-6" difference in purebred Lowlines so there isn't a great deal of difference unless they are breeding to get the really small animals. There is a market for smaller cuts of beef going on. Many restaurants are wanting smaller cuts now with all the health gurus talking about it. Time will tell though. They would be great for small operators with small acerage.

 

[Frankie]

You guys are totally missing the point. To get cattle to finish on grass, they need to be smaller framed. Feeding out on grain and taking commodity or even CAB prices if you are happy with that requires bigger growthier cattle.

These grass feeding guys laugh their butts off at us for spending money on feed and equipment, while the ones that have their act together are getting well over $1.00 per lb live weight with no feed expense.

If grass feeding was so much more profitable, more people would be doing it. It takes longer to finish an animal on grass, so you can run fewer animals on a piece of land. Cattle have to have something to eat in winter, too. In my part of the country, that means hay or cool season forages. Both of those require equipment to cut, bale, fertilize, plant.

 

[KNERSIE]

Sorry for chirping in late on this thread, but although I have nothing against smaller cattle I am definately not interested in any breed of cattle that are continually selected for an even smaler frame size. I think that eventually by continuing this single trait selection all the growth are going to be bred out of them and more than likely other faults will creep in.

If the minitures decided they wanted to be a frame 1 or even a frame 0 its fine by me, but it seems like they are chasing a frame 0000 or even smaller if possible.

Surely there must be a minimum frame size and below that cattle won't be functional or profitable.

i'm sure we all remember the consequences of chasing the other extreme.

 

[Brandonm2]

So these angus running around here in the heat getting smaller and smaller each generation or evolving into low lines?

White tail deer are sort of the same here in Texas. :lol: :lol:

They could NOT evolve into Lowline Anguses because the Lowline is a linebred group of Angus developed at a research station in Australia. They COULD evolve into miniature Angus's though since a mini is just a cow that is less than 42 inches tall.

I think some of us in Alabama, West Virginia, and Texas are in the first stages of watching the deer evolve into goats!*!*!

Lowline has a breed up program (or breed down as it may). As long as they are Angus they can be registered as full bloods once they meet the height requirements. I've done some ET work with a guy who is getting into Lowlines and this is what he was telling me.

These were not developed in Australia. They imported Aberdeen Angus in the 20s and did research with them. The animals were not crossed with any other breed and thus remained pure Aberdeen. They have to have dna done to prove that they carry the Aberdeen genes before registering. Some people now are breeding them for smallness but many are just breeding the normal small stocky cow that angus used to be. I looked at some Lowline/Tarentaise cross heifers Saturday along side of same age purebred Tarentaise heifers and there was about 4" difference in height at 9 months and maybe 5-6" difference in purebred Lowlines so there isn't a great deal of difference unless they are breeding to get the really small animals. There is a market for smaller cuts of beef going on. Many restaurants are wanting smaller cuts now with all the health gurus talking about it. Time will tell though. They would be great for small operators with small acerage.

That is exactly my point. My grandfather had short, stocky little Angus cows here 20 years ago that were VERY close to that Lowline height requirement; but they were NOT Lowlines because Lowlines are the result of a linebreeding program in Australia. Sure you can grade Angus cows up too "Lowlines"; but every dinky little Angus floating around out there is NOT technically a "Lowline".

 

[Brandonm2]

Sorry for chirping in late on this thread, but although I have nothing against smaller cattle I am definately not interested in any breed of cattle that are continually selected for an even smaler frame size. I think that eventually by continuing this single trait selection all the growth are going to be bred out of them and more than likely other faults will creep in.

If the minitures decided they wanted to be a frame 1 or even a frame 0 its fine by me, but it seems like they are chasing a frame 0000 or even smaller if possible.

Surely there must be a minimum frame size and below that cattle won't be functional or profitable.

i'm sure we all remember the consequences of chasing the other extreme.

I agree with that. I am a little sentimental about the old frame 1 and 2 cows. You get down to frame score 0000 and less and you are just breeding toys. A frame 0000 steers hangs WHAT a 360 lb carcass?? Is that a steak or a pork chop? We already have mini mini cows afterall ....we call them SHEEP!!

 

[KMacGinley]

You guys are totally missing the point. To get cattle to finish on grass, they need to be smaller framed. Feeding out on grain and taking commodity or even CAB prices if you are happy with that requires bigger growthier cattle.

These grass feeding guys laugh their butts off at us for spending money on feed and equipment, while the ones that have their act together are getting well over $1.00 per lb live weight with no feed expense.

If grass feeding was so much more profitable, more people would be doing it. It takes longer to finish an animal on grass, so you can run fewer animals on a piece of land. Cattle have to have something to eat in winter, too. In my part of the country, that means hay or cool season forages. Both of those require equipment to cut, bale, fertilize, plant.

More people are doing it! It is the fastest growing part of the cattle industry. There are people in the Dakotas, Montana and Idaho that are feeding very little or no hay and they are much further North than you. Check out some of the articles on the stockman grassfarmer website. As to more land,,, there are ways to use winter annuals and other options to stretch out grazing.

 

[Frankie]

More people are doing it! It is the fastest growing part of the cattle industry. There are people in the Dakotas, Montana and Idaho that are feeding very little or no hay and they are much further North than you. Check out some of the articles on the stockman grassfarmer website. As to more land,,, there are ways to use winter annuals and other options to stretch out grazing.

Grassfed beef has plenty of room to grow. It's hardly a drop in the bucket of the beef industry today. But however you cut it, if you have 100 acres that could support ten cows, you can't run ten cows. You'll be feeding the cows, their current calf, and the last calf crop you weaned. If you can make up the difference, good for you.

If they're feeding winter annuals, they need equipment to plant and fertilize those annuals. So how much money are they saving in equipment costs?

And don't confuse grassfed with natural. They're not the same thing.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Frankie, whether I'm "debating" with or against you - I love your enthusiasm. You are extremely detailed, and that's a good thing. I tend to miss details.