Lowlines

[Engler]

My brother in law and father in law are super motivated to get into the mini cattle business, not sure why, and they are looking at some lowlines. Since I have any cattle experience I have been drafted as the resident "expert" on the project, but I know I don't know diddly poo about these things. They've found some for sale and plan to go look this weekend and I'm trying to play catch up so I can ask inteligent questions to hopefully help them avoid a train wreck.

I've seen the breed propoganda on the web sites and like every breed they are the do all and end all, best breed of cattle ever. I know that they are supposed to be a small framed, more efficient cow that tops out in the 5-800# range. They are supposed to have a bunch of the qualities that made the old school angus the real deal. They're looking at marketing the steers as freezer beef to yuppy neighbors and keeping top end heifers. We've got good fences (hold sheep), old chute and facilites so that shouldn't be a problem.

Can anyone give me any feedback on this breed?
Do they (can they) still carry AAA papers?
Is there any of the genetic trash floating around in the population like the angus?
Can they be bred to a "normal" angus bull and get the calves out? What about a moderate limi, semi..?
How much more efficient are they?
Additude?
Anything else I should know?

 

[3waycross]

Run.........

 

[backhoeboogie]

My brother in law and father in law are super motivated to get into the mini cattle business, not sure why, and they are looking at some lowlines. Since I have any cattle experience I have been drafted as the resident "expert" on the project, but I know I don't know diddly poo about these things. They've found some for sale and plan to go look this weekend and I'm trying to play catch up so I can ask inteligent questions to hopefully help them avoid a train wreck.

I've seen the breed propoganda on the web sites and like every breed they are the do all and end all, best breed of cattle ever. I know that they are supposed to be a small framed, more efficient cow that tops out in the 5-800# range. They are supposed to have a bunch of the qualities that made the old school angus the real deal. They're looking at marketing the steers as freezer beef to yuppy neighbors and keeping top end heifers. We've got good fences (hold sheep), old chute and facilites so that shouldn't be a problem.

Can anyone give me any feedback on this breed?
Do they (can they) still carry AAA papers?
Is there any of the genetic trash floating around in the population like the angus?
Can they be bred to a "normal" angus bull and get the calves out? What about a moderate limi, semi..?
How much more efficient are they?
Additude?
Anything else I should know?

Quoting your words above: I know that they are supposed to be a small framed, more efficient cow that tops out in the 5-800# range. They are supposed to have a bunch of the qualities that made the old school angus the real deal.

That is the angus I remember from the 70's. I don't remember seeing anything over 1000 lbs back then. All of the sudden angus became huge. If these gals work in your climate, it may work for you. They are angus and if the AAA denies them, that should tell you something.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

http://toplinelowlines.com/

http://www.usa-lowline.org/

 

[Loch Valley Fold]

We've been using a Lowline bull over our Angus cows for the last 2 years & I like the cross I've found that the calve to be smaller at birth but still finish off at a mid size animal they are earlier to finish ( I guess because they don't need to grow as much) we're now using a Lowline x Angus bull over the last of our Scottish Highland Cows & if these calves grow like the Square Meater calves did I'll be very happy. Like every breed they do have their pros & cons don't get caught up in the moment & buy the first animals you see. do some research so you know what the "ideal" animal looks like & go from there.

Do they (can they) still carry AAA papers?
As far as I am aware the Australian Angus Association wont accept Lowlines so I can't see the AAA accepting them as well

Is there any of the genetic trash floating around in the population like the angus
From the research I did I couldn't find anything wrong with the genetics

Can they be bred to a "normal" angus bull and get the calves out?
Yes, Yes, Yes although I went the other way Lowline bull over Angus Cows

Additude
Like any breed you have good & bad, bad should be culled out immediately there are plenty of good cows out there you don't need crap. It only takes 1 bad animal to ruin a quiet herd.
I have a dozen highland calves that I can't wait to get rid of, the bull I used has ruined my once quiet herd & I have kept none of his calves & all have been sold straight to slaughter - including him

 

[cross_7]

when your riding fence and checking cattle you have to ride a shetland pony and when you need to rope a calf you ahve to use a piggin string for your rope :cboy:

i don't know much about them but i have heard some have focused on getting smaller(like they have the mini ponies)so watch out for dwarfism
heard of some folks using doc holliday on their straight angus cows

 

[MO_cows]

Lowlines have their own registry. They started from a closed herd of registered Angus cattle, but during the 30 years or so they were used at the research station in Australia for the experiment that created the breed, the Angus registrations fell by the wayside. So when the research ended and the herd was dispersed to the public, a new registry was started in Australia and when they were imported into the US, another one was started here, 1998 or so.

Some of them are well made and well proportioned. If you saw a pasture shot without a reference to give you their size, you would just think it was an Angus. But some of them are pot bellied, poor conformationed little buggers that have been bred to be small and cute, period.

They don't have EBV's (yet). There have not been genetic defects reported in the Lowlines (yet).

Edited to add: They are still very expensive.

 

[Loch Valley Fold]

Pretty sure there is also a Highline which are supposed to be slightly taller than Lowlines although not as popular as the Lowline & there are breeders her in Australia breeding red Lowlines (known as redline) as far as I know these are not accepted by the Aust. Lowline Association

 

[djinwa]

As was stated, they come in different sizes. I would avoid going very small. For one thing, if you have decent pasture, they seem to get fat - not putting out enough milk or making a big enough calf to utilize the energy.

I had a lowline/jersey cow which I'd milk a gallon a day for 11 months a year, plus what the calf took, and she always maintained good condition with just mediocre hay.

I should have kept her, but a good-looking woman offered me good money for her. Which lady emailed me a year later saying her husband left her, and she wondered if I wanted the cow back, with a lowline calf, and bred to a lowline bull.

Anyway, I had decided instead of going lowline, to use the smaller standard breeding, such as found at Pharo Cattle Company. Got semen from the bulls Johnny B Good and Colorado High.

One problem with the smaller breeds is the lack of emphasis on quality. If every heifer is worth alot of money, there won't be enough culling. I saw lowlines at the fair, and sent my daughter to look at a herd and take photos, and the udders were ugly. And despite the claims of docility, on lowline day at the fair, it was pretty noisy in the big arena. Many with that evil look in their eye.

I would avoid breeding them to standard angus. Maybe larger and older lowlines could handle a smaller calving ease standard bull, but you'd want to be careful.

 

[Massey135]

Some good ones out there: Doc Holliday

 

[3waycross]

Some good ones out there: Doc Holliday

Playing Devils Advocate here.

Let's pretend that he was 56in at the hip what would you think of him then.

 

[Loch Valley Fold]

Playing Devils Advocate here.

Let's pretend that he was 56in at the hip what would you think of him then.

No I wouldn't use him if he tall or short these, days there are so many better cattle than this one, not bashing here he was good at his time but these day hopefully the genetics have come a longer way than to use old genetics. I like some of the cattle on the Topline Lowline site here http://toplinelowlines.com/

 

[3waycross]

My only problem with them is the only ones I have been around belonged to a local fella and they were almost all nuts!

 

[Massey135]

From the website, they look like how an Angus should. I really like their senior sire.

 

[Loch Valley Fold]

From the website I actually went back & looked for some of the bloodlines here in Australia these are how I want breed my Angus

 

[Old_man_emu]

I had some limited experience some years ago show lowlines for a prominent aussie stud.
Have you looked at http://www.usa-lowline.org/index.php . If your in laws are looking at a stud herd they should look at the breed standards and become familiar with them. I had a look at the Topline Lowlines, their cattle look great in the photo's so I would give them a go.
I would ask anyone i'm advising why lowlines. Historically they were developed by drafting the cattle with the slowest growth to yearling age and breeding them to each other.
The research showed niether the higline (highest growth) or lowline (lowest growth) group were more or less efficient at converting grass to beef, that is, converting lbs eaten into weight gain. In saying that, when you look at an animal eating a percentage of it's body wieght, obviously a small lowline will eat less grass per head than a large Angus cow.
So, from a business perspective, workout the carcase weight you want to produce and build a cow herd with the growth and maturity pattern that fits best. When looking at it from a hobby/pleasure point of veiw, do what makes you happy.
As for genetic defects, I haven't had the experience to know the specifics, but, they were bred from Angus so the potential is there I would say. They also can from an original herd of only 85 cows, those cows were only bred to yearling bulls from those original cows meaning they came from a small genetic pool. I have no idea if they have introduced more genetics or not, or how closely related the foundation stock were.
Why breed them to an Angus bull? Instead why not just find some small angus or go the other way around and AI angus cows to lowline bulls. From what I can find out lowline calves are around 44 to 48 lbs at birth, a small angus calf might be 66lbs but I have had them in excess of 110lbs.
And as for selection of good stock, they should appear like a small Angus, not a dwarf, they should be balanced and in the right proportions for their size.

I hope I have been helpful, good luck!

 

[robert]

old_man_emu wrote "As for genetic defects, I haven't had the experience to know the specifics, but, they were bred from Angus so the potential is there I would say."

I'm not pro Lowline by any means however I'd disagree with you on this, I think there is every likelihood the foundation Lowlines are free of genetic defects given the small gene pool they had to work with and the amount of linebreeding that likely occured (either intentionally or not) over the years of the poject. The genetic defects that have been brought to light over the past couple of years (notice I didn't say 'discovered' which would imply they were not previously known about) are, I believe, linked to cattle that may not even have true Angus ancestry. Just my 2c.

 

[Old_man_emu]

old_man_emu wrote "As for genetic defects, I haven't had the experience to know the specifics, but, they were bred from Angus so the potential is there I would say."

I'm not pro Lowline by any means however I'd disagree with you on this, I think there is every likelihood the foundation Lowlines are free of genetic defects given the small gene pool they had to work with and the amount of linebreeding that likely occured (either intentionally or not) over the years of the poject. The genetic defects that have been brought to light over the past couple of years (notice I didn't say 'discovered' which would imply they were not previously known about) are, I believe, linked to cattle that may not even have true Angus ancestry. Just my 2c.

Robert I'm happy to take your word for it, I'm still very "green" when it come to genetics.
Would it be fair to say that if any defects where present in the foundation cows, the linebreeding that took place would have bought them to the fore?
I suppose I was thinking of genetic problems that are caused by going to far with linebreeding and ending in inbreeding.

Every day I continue to learn! Only thing is, the more I learn the more questions I have :?

 

[ANAZAZI]

Inbreeding can cause bad genetics to show up, if they are ptresent in the gene pool. Inbreeding will not create the bad genetics. The healthier genetics; the less problems with inbreeding. :2cents:

 

[pk1]

Seriously go do some reaserch, the procesors do not want them! it costs just as much to process a lowline carcase as it does a normal beast, but with alot less end result they dont want to waist there time. They wont make any premiums in the yards, i have never heard of a lowline topping the local store or weaner sales! It is a quick money making gimic breed for people with 10 hectares. Enough said. :cboy: