lost two calves, what is going on?

[Txtrophy85]

bought a group of 12 calves in early Feb.

9 were about 300-350#'s and the other 3 were small calves about 150#....they were weaned and to get the deal I got I had to take the 12. all had their shots and we wormed them in the trailer before we turned them out.

Last week I went down there and found one of the small calves dead in a pile of hay. Yesterday I went out and found one that couldn't stand up, got her on her feet, put her in a pen with hay, feed and water and found her dead this morning.

what could be going on? these calves were doing great a month ago?


only thing that has changed is we moved our bull (18 months old 1900 lbs) over there for a few weeks before we move him into another pasture because he kept jumping the fence where he was at. Very gentle bull and from what I can tell he is friendly towards the other cows. All of the other 11 are doing great and putting on weight

I'm as green as you can get when it comes to cattle so any guesses as to what is happening would be appreciated.

out of the 3 150# cows, 2 were heifers, both of those died, if that helps.

 

[mwj]

Calves that are weaned at 150lb need a very good feed program. You can not mix calves that small with bigger calves and expect them to thrive. They can eat all the hay they can hold and starve to death. If you post the calf I would expect to find the death to be nutrition related. They have a small capacity for feed and it will need to be nutrient dense and of good quality.

 

[Txtrophy85]

any recommendation on feed?

I may separate the other one in a pen and feed him separately for a few weeks

 

[snake67]

bought a group of 12 calves in early Feb.

9 were about 300-350#'s and the other 3 were small calves about 150#....they were weaned and to get the deal I got I had to take the 12. all had their shots and we wormed them in the trailer before we turned them out.

Last week I went down there and found one of the small calves dead in a pile of hay. Yesterday I went out and found one that couldn't stand up, got her on her feet, put her in a pen with hay, feed and water and found her dead this morning.

what could be going on? these calves were doing great a month ago?


only thing that has changed is we moved our bull (18 months old 1900 lbs) over there for a few weeks before we move him into another pasture because he kept jumping the fence where he was at. Very gentle bull and from what I can tell he is friendly towards the other cows. All of the other 11 are doing great and putting on weight

I'm as green as you can get when it comes to cattle so any guesses as to what is happening would be appreciated.

out of the 3 150# cows, 2 were heifers, both of those died, if that helps.

You starved them to death.

Starved them.

Think on that.

Weaned at 150 pounds? Never going to happen.

They do not live on hay and grain at that age - fellow that sold them to you either lied or you are not being up front.

Either way the result is the same.

Check out my first line in this and think on it big time

You do not know enough about animals to be buying them at that age and you will not likely learn it from a web site discussion board.

Try talking to some local farmers or 4H kids before you do this again - SPCA will run your azz straight to jail for that type of mistreatment of animals and ignorance is no excuse.

Bez

 

[Txtrophy85]

the one that died first did not starve to death.

it was in good shape, it just died. and why is the other one that is the same size doing ok?

 

[milkmaid]

Unless they're Holsteins, bottle calves, miniatures, or Dexters Bez...

That said weaned 150lb calves need to be on quality grain at 2% of their body weight and free choice good quality hay regardless of breed. They just don't have enough rumen capacity at that size to live on grass or hay. How old and what breed are these critters?

Cause on these calves could be anything from starvation to pneumonia to weather-related to toxin exposure (any lead? batteries? pesticides?) to trauma (1800lb bull and 6 month old miniature Jerseys?)... what's the weather like there? will the carcasses still be in good shape tomorrow where you could have a vet do a necropsy? Or cut them open yourself and take pictures. PM me your email and I'll send you an article to show you how to do it.

There's no substitute for looking at the inside of an animal to determine cause of death....

 

[highgrit]

Well that's a little rough but true. Anything younger than 6 months needs feeding with a high protein feed. The biggest calves will bully the small ones. I tried the bottle calf route and had troubles. The county extension agent helped us a lot. Milkmaid your great thanks.

 

[greybeard]

I dunno about Holsteins..but..

they were weaned

That part right there-it means different things to different people, but it SHOULD mean that they no longer need anything from momma and can fend for themselves if good feed is available. Too often, calves are separated right from the teats, put in a trailer and sold as "weaned" calves. They ain't weaned--they're just separated from momma. Don't know what the birthweight of those calves was, but 90 lbs isn't all that unusual at all, so it could very well be your now deceased calves were only 60lbs over birthweight--that's not enough maturity. I bought 4 last year, 5-8 months old, weaned by their mommas, and all weighed over 350-400lbs.
Can you wean at 150 lbs? Yes, but YOU have to do a lot more than just turn them loose on hay, "feed" and water. Did you ever see them drink water? Those light weights may not have even known what water was if they came straight of the teat.

(OK, I missed the part about early Feb purchase timeline--I would imagine they knew what water was or would have been dead long before now.)

 

[Txtrophy85]

I could cut the other one open tomorrow.

in south texas we have had a few freezes, not nasty, cold wet weather save for yesterday.

one that died first was a angus/Hereford mix, the one that died yesterday was a brangus and the one we have left that is small is a Hereford.

 

[milkmaid]

Cut her open then. Lay the ribs back, then get a picture of lungs inside the animal. Pictures of lung, liver, kidneys, heart, both intact and cut open. Try not to take pics too closeup; I like to be able to tell size based off surrounding structures. Check to see if there's feed in the digestive tract (primarily rumen) and what it is. Look for lesions on the mouth and tongue. Open the trachea and esophagus if you can (takes a little bit of skill to slit them lengthwise) and look for lesions (not caused by your knife). Get plenty of pictures without pulling out organs and spreading them all over the grass/dirt. Google parts of a cow if you're not sure you'll recognize the organs.

It'd take me about 5 minutes - your first try on a 150lb calf plan on 45 minutes or so. Depends if you have a helper to take pictures.

I'll be back online tomorrow; if you have pics I'll comment on them. If I don't have an answer surely Lucky will when he comes online.

 

[Txtrophy85]

it takes me about 5 min to cut open a cow. I've been gutting deer since I was 11.

I'll get some pics and post them tomorrow.

thanks

 

[greybeard]

I look forward to the pics and Milkmaid's comments too.
I have not done one myself, so it will be a learning experience for me too.

 

[chippie]

are you checking your cattle daily? when you have weaned calves weighing 150 lbs, you can not turn them loose and expect them to forage for themselves.
At that weight, chances are they are baby calves, not calves that would be weaned normally at such an early age. The average weight for weaned calves is 500+ lbs and many people wean when the calves are older than 200 days (6 months).

 

[snake67]

the one that died first did not starve to death.

it was in good shape, it just died. and why is the other one that is the same size doing ok?

66% mortality - not bad at all - even a few will survive no matter how bad you treat them.

For some one who says he knows nothing about cows and calves you are awful certain it was in good shape.

I'm as green as you can get when it comes to cattle

It might be cut open and there might be food in its gut but that does not mean it is getting anything from it.

Sorry folks - there is no way a 150 pound animal is weaned unless it is on a no schitte special diet - and that special diet also means it is not weaned as it was not on a special diet.

Been raising cattle for nearly 50 years - the other calf is probably just hanging on or just getting by.

Not one responsible person on these boards has ever come on here and stated they weaned a 150 pound calf and fed it hay and grain.

Might not like the way the message is being delivered but I ask any one of you who has ever raised a calf - when was the last time you turned out a 150 pounder, called it weaned and let it fend for itself at the bunk? And if you did how well did it do?

Bottom line buddy - until a vet actually comes to me with an official autopsy report - you starved it to death - or it was so malnourished it died of pneumonia or other disease - in the end it makes no difference - you might not like it but too bad.

Cost of a veterinarian visit might have saved the second one - now you are out two - losses cost you more than the price of that vet visit.

Now go kill the "healthy" one and send us the pics to prove me wrong.

Harsh? Maybe - been living in a harsh world all my life but I work to keep my animals healthy.

Truthful? Probably closer than most will admit. And that is the meat of it all - probably closer than most will want to admit.

Bez



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[denvermartinfarms]

Bez, I agree that they very well may have starved to death. But I have raised a few thousand buttle calves that all get weaned at 60 days and most of the time they are in the 150lb range or maybe just a touch over. They then get fed good feed and hay, but they do fine.

The way this sounds is that a month ago they were fine and he was there last week? Yea, 150lb calves can't be done that way, your not doing yourself any favors running the 300lb calves that way either. That's just going to turn them in to stunted knotheads calves. These calves need good hay and 5lbs of feed a day.

 

[greybeard]

Pictures?

 

[branguscowgirl]

I think he has left the site........