Don't you think, If our government would stop sending our jobs to foreign countries there would be enough good paying jobs for our citizens so that dad could go to work and mom could stay home and raise their children.
Looking for Some Answers...
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There are no easy answers. Yes, there are good folks in my community. But you have to get out and look for that. They aren't going to beat down your door.
BHB, I know you did your best. Stuff happens, and you are right, I am scared to death that my son is hundreds of miles away from my influence on his life. You just never know.
I would have loved to have stayed home and baked bread all day, but that was not my reality. Nor is it the reality of many women these days. We all do what we have to do. Some of the worst mothers I have ever seen stay at home. I have a student like that now. His mother stays at home using crank. She's dirty. She smells and she's a poor example for her son. But by golly! She's a stay at home mom!
BHB, I know you did your best. Stuff happens, and you are right, I am scared to death that my son is hundreds of miles away from my influence on his life. You just never know.
I would have loved to have stayed home and baked bread all day, but that was not my reality. Nor is it the reality of many women these days. We all do what we have to do. Some of the worst mothers I have ever seen stay at home. I have a student like that now. His mother stays at home using crank. She's dirty. She smells and she's a poor example for her son. But by golly! She's a stay at home mom!
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Lammie":3e0bvdpz said:There are no easy answers. Yes, there are good folks in my community. But you have to get out and look for that. They aren't going to beat down your door.
BHB, I know you did your best. Stuff happens, and you are right, I am scared to death that my son is hundreds of miles away from my influence on his life. You just never know.
I would have loved to have stayed home and baked bread all day, but that was not my reality. Nor is it the reality of many women these days. We all do what we have to do. Some of the worst mothers I have ever seen stay at home. I have a student like that now. His mother stays at home using crank. She's dirty. She smells and she's a poor example for her son. But by golly! She's a stay at home mom!
Lammie there are also kids who come from the worst of the worst situations and put them selves above it all. I happen to know one whose prents were separated, never married, both went to jail, and he was sent to foster care with strangers, living in yet another bad situation. He got his college degree and doesn't associate with anyone from his childhood.
Victoria
Well-known member
When you kick God out of society then society always falls apart. Morals and sense of responsibility are lacking. The morals people still have are skewed because they are based on personal opinions not on a fixed point of truth (God's word). BTW I am not talking about just parents. We have infant baptism in our church and as a congregation we stand up and say we will lead these children in their lives to Christ. I take that seriously. As a society we have to stop turning a blind eye on children, parents have to do their jobs but all of us have to help them.
I have all the respect in the world for single women who have to work (my Mom was one of them) to support their children but hrbelgians has a point. It is not the mindset of women who HAVE to work that causes a problem. The problem comes from the women who have a kid because they want one instead of thinking of the life the child will have. Case in point. I know a couple that both work 5 days a week, long days. They got a house. Then they had to get a dog. One of them took a week off work to stay with the puppy. Then the puppy was crated all day and most evenings because of social events they wanted to be involved in. The dog's not quite normal - surprise, surprise. So they have no time for a dog BUT they had to have a baby. So she has a baby and three months later has the kid in daycare because she can't stand to be home taking care of the baby all day. She is a career woman, she should not have had a child. How will this child grow up? Lots of money but not lots of love. That can be a deadly combination.
People should not have a child just because they can or because society thinks they should (as a 33 year old childless woman I can say society does expect it of you) and if they do then they should be responsible.
hrbelgians said that when women started going to work - that is key. At one point the most important job a woman had was raising her children. It was a respected job. Then a bunch of women decided it wasn't important enough they were not fulfilled and searched out careers. The mindset switched and children became less important than jobs. Being a stay at home Mom was looked down on by many. I don't care if women work or not but if raising their child is not their #1 priority they shouldn't have had that child.
Sorry for the vent. I am off to take care of my cows.
I have all the respect in the world for single women who have to work (my Mom was one of them) to support their children but hrbelgians has a point. It is not the mindset of women who HAVE to work that causes a problem. The problem comes from the women who have a kid because they want one instead of thinking of the life the child will have. Case in point. I know a couple that both work 5 days a week, long days. They got a house. Then they had to get a dog. One of them took a week off work to stay with the puppy. Then the puppy was crated all day and most evenings because of social events they wanted to be involved in. The dog's not quite normal - surprise, surprise. So they have no time for a dog BUT they had to have a baby. So she has a baby and three months later has the kid in daycare because she can't stand to be home taking care of the baby all day. She is a career woman, she should not have had a child. How will this child grow up? Lots of money but not lots of love. That can be a deadly combination.
People should not have a child just because they can or because society thinks they should (as a 33 year old childless woman I can say society does expect it of you) and if they do then they should be responsible.
hrbelgians said that when women started going to work - that is key. At one point the most important job a woman had was raising her children. It was a respected job. Then a bunch of women decided it wasn't important enough they were not fulfilled and searched out careers. The mindset switched and children became less important than jobs. Being a stay at home Mom was looked down on by many. I don't care if women work or not but if raising their child is not their #1 priority they shouldn't have had that child.
Sorry for the vent.
I am off to take care of my cows.Raising my kids was and is my number one priority. THAT is why I work. If you are equating day care with crating a dog, then I take offense at that. And I surely am not alone. No one ever questions a man working, yet when a woman works it becomes a sin. Staying at home is work. Working outside the home is work. If working outside the home if you have kids is bad, then why send girls to school at all?
I am not budging on this one. This thread is about kids that seem to have no support system and no hope. Working outside the home made me a better mother. It made my sons stronger, more independent and more confident. I had them in a good day care situation at a nationally accredited center, and I am convinced that the early childhood learning they received, the trips they took, the resources at the disposal of their teachers, were far better for them than if they had stayed home with me and watched me clean house.
It isnt what you do, it is how you do it. I don't crate my dogs and I don't crate my sons.
I am not budging on this one. This thread is about kids that seem to have no support system and no hope. Working outside the home made me a better mother. It made my sons stronger, more independent and more confident. I had them in a good day care situation at a nationally accredited center, and I am convinced that the early childhood learning they received, the trips they took, the resources at the disposal of their teachers, were far better for them than if they had stayed home with me and watched me clean house.
It isnt what you do, it is how you do it. I don't crate my dogs and I don't crate my sons.
hrbelgians":tabr0ttg said:
Or maybe it started when men cheated on their wives and then divorced them for a younger woman? What's the X-wife supposed to do to pay her rent? Go on welfare? Curl up and die?
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
We are on round 2. Raising a grandson for now, 20 years later. The same home but a different culture. Things have changed. People have moved in. Times are different. Some things are the same.
There doesn't appear to be any prescribed absolute answers. Kids are different from one another with different interests and different dreams.
Folks can share the things that worked for their own, and we can listen and learn. Funny that we had already raised children, but now we listen to the younger parents who are succeeding in the new age. Perhaps the show "The Nanny" or whatever it is called is a success because people are paying attention.
Love is enough to take an old redneck, hard headed, steadfast, stick in the mud type person sit up and take notice of "touchy feely" discussion.
There doesn't appear to be any prescribed absolute answers. Kids are different from one another with different interests and different dreams.
Folks can share the things that worked for their own, and we can listen and learn. Funny that we had already raised children, but now we listen to the younger parents who are succeeding in the new age. Perhaps the show "The Nanny" or whatever it is called is a success because people are paying attention.
Love is enough to take an old redneck, hard headed, steadfast, stick in the mud type person sit up and take notice of "touchy feely" discussion.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Lammie":1szylmt2 said:
Did you devote 30 minutes "quality time" to each kid each day?
Think about this (I have - lots). Some families (my Grandad maternal) had 17 bros and sis that lived. 18 total. Did each one of those kids get 30 minutes quality time with mom each day? Lammie I don't see how stay at home moms did it back then, but they did. But there is no way each kid got 30 minutes of mom's time each day on an individual basis.
The one thing I think that every parent should do no matter what is to read to their children. I read with my kids every day. First story books and then chapter books. It was a way we could get together and be close to one another. It also made them both avid readers.
Car trips to school were a good time to touch base. Taking them to the grocery store was always an educational opportunity. I even had my sons write in my return address on the envelopes when I paid bills. Little things mean a lot. William and I read CT posts together and discuss the sales, prices and stuff like that. He's learned as much as I have from CT.
I think that people fail to see the opportunities that exist every day to do something small but meaningful with their children.
Car trips to school were a good time to touch base. Taking them to the grocery store was always an educational opportunity. I even had my sons write in my return address on the envelopes when I paid bills. Little things mean a lot. William and I read CT posts together and discuss the sales, prices and stuff like that. He's learned as much as I have from CT.
I think that people fail to see the opportunities that exist every day to do something small but meaningful with their children.
Let's take this a little bit of a different direction.
Some children are expected to be their parent's/caretaker's emotional support...even at a very young age. Some very young children are expected to take care of younger siblings. My daughter has had, and has, children in her 3rd grade class that their mother's and father's relied upon to make certain the siblings got to school. And, some of these children are used as their mother's and father's confessors...those poor kids are expected to feel badly for them and support them when mama's boyfriend or daddy's girlfriend does them wrong...adult type stuff that kids should not be made a part of!
Too much grown up stuff is expected of little kids...they are expected to think and behave like adults sometimes, then treated like children others. No, of course not every child, but all children have these miniature caretaker supporters as peers. No wonder kids get emotionally confused.
I have a feeling that this is not something new...it's just becoming more known about.
Crowder, you said something about how things were so much different when you were going to school. In last Sunday's Fort Worth Star Telegram, there was an entire page devoted to someone that I grew up with...went to school with. Didn't care for him then, and the article doesn't change my mind.
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... p_docnum=1
Dysfunctional families were around then, but if your folks were like mine, it was not discussed in front of the children. I can remember many times my mother and father working behind the scenes trying to help out a child in one way or the other...but we never knew the circumstances or the name of the child, or the child's family, or what was being done...and we knew better than to ask. Now, children are expected to take over adult burdens and are told to keep it quiet...and adults trying to help are told to mind their own business.
Sad, sad commentary.
Alice
Some children are expected to be their parent's/caretaker's emotional support...even at a very young age. Some very young children are expected to take care of younger siblings. My daughter has had, and has, children in her 3rd grade class that their mother's and father's relied upon to make certain the siblings got to school. And, some of these children are used as their mother's and father's confessors...those poor kids are expected to feel badly for them and support them when mama's boyfriend or daddy's girlfriend does them wrong...adult type stuff that kids should not be made a part of!
Too much grown up stuff is expected of little kids...they are expected to think and behave like adults sometimes, then treated like children others. No, of course not every child, but all children have these miniature caretaker supporters as peers. No wonder kids get emotionally confused.
I have a feeling that this is not something new...it's just becoming more known about.
Crowder, you said something about how things were so much different when you were going to school. In last Sunday's Fort Worth Star Telegram, there was an entire page devoted to someone that I grew up with...went to school with. Didn't care for him then, and the article doesn't change my mind.
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... p_docnum=1
Dysfunctional families were around then, but if your folks were like mine, it was not discussed in front of the children. I can remember many times my mother and father working behind the scenes trying to help out a child in one way or the other...but we never knew the circumstances or the name of the child, or the child's family, or what was being done...and we knew better than to ask. Now, children are expected to take over adult burdens and are told to keep it quiet...and adults trying to help are told to mind their own business.
Sad, sad commentary.
Alice
milesvb
Well-known member
Lammie":30zaa2d9 said:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I guess that's why I read at the collegiate level as a fourth grader. :cowboy:
rkm
Well-known member
I have a son and daughter-in-law that are both teachers. They have seen first hand the problems of someone other than mom and dad doing the parenting. My daughter-in-law has decided to stay at home and raise their kids. It takes some sacrifice, especially on her part. Don't get me wrong they will still have a nice income. But they won't build that house they dreamed of for a few years. My son is involved in discipline at the school and he said there are not many happy endings.
I believe in stay at home moms and we sacrificed to do that while our kids were young. When they entered school my wife took a part time job so she could still pick the kid's up after school.
They need it just as well as they mature.
See link.
The best quote was.....
"My question is -- where are the parents who set limits as to what are ... acceptable behaviors and what is not? " said Hughey. "And if you say that's acceptable -- you create that environment."
Or maybe this one.....
"We wanted to show that this behavior is really just flags or indicators that something much more profound is afflicting our kids everywhere," Goodman said
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9910/21/suburban.syphilis.01/
edit again... I belive most kids want to feel their father loves their mother as he loves them.
That is a hard thing ..... even in best relationships .... in their perspective.
They need it just as well as they mature.
See link.
The best quote was.....
"My question is -- where are the parents who set limits as to what are ... acceptable behaviors and what is not? " said Hughey. "And if you say that's acceptable -- you create that environment."
Or maybe this one.....
"We wanted to show that this behavior is really just flags or indicators that something much more profound is afflicting our kids everywhere," Goodman said
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9910/21/suburban.syphilis.01/
edit again... I belive most kids want to feel their father loves their mother as he loves them.
That is a hard thing ..... even in best relationships .... in their perspective.
Victoria
Well-known member
Lammie,
Sorry you take offense but I do equate the two in some instances. The instance that I am speaking of - A) They got a dog that they didn't want to spend time with so they shoved it in a crate so they didn't have to deal with it. B) They had a child they didn't want to deal with so they shoved her in daycare so they wouldn't have to deal with her. When they discovered they didn't have time for a dog they shouldn't have had a baby.
I also don't think that women who work out of the home are better mothers than those who choose to stay home to raise their children. There are good mothers in each category. I think for a child the best possible scenario would be to have the mother stay home while the father works and makes a good living for the family. I say the mothers stay home because I believe very strongly that women are better at taking care of children on average than men are. Not saying this is always true and I wouldn't knock anyone who did it the other way around. I am also not putting you down for working, you did what you had to do with what you had AND you put your children first. Obviously you love your kids. There are other mothers in the same category single moms, families that can not possibly live on one income but the children from those families know that there mother HAS to work and that makes them look at things differently than if they know mom is working because her job is more important. Children do know the difference.
To answer why send girls to school - 1) To work until they have children 2) To work P-T while children are in school 3) To work if they choose not to have children 4) To work if there is divorce and they have to support the children. 5) To be a well-educated woman that has the ability to properly bring up the next generation- the most important job of all.
I don't know what daycare centers are like there but here most are not good. I have a friend that worked in a number of govt. approved daycare centers. She was not allowed to: Hug a child under any circumstances (even if the child was hurt), Discipline a child (a loud no is considered discipline), or tell them the true meaning of Christmas and Easter. She finally quit daycare work and started a dayhome. She took in children of divorced parents that wanted the best for their children and wanted someone who would love and care for them as she would her own children.
Nothing is more important than time spent with a parent in my opinion. I am so thankful that my mother worked on the ranch. I could go along with her. We may not have had as much money as we would of had she gone and gotten a different job but the years spent with her made up for it.
Sorry you take offense but I do equate the two in some instances. The instance that I am speaking of - A) They got a dog that they didn't want to spend time with so they shoved it in a crate so they didn't have to deal with it. B) They had a child they didn't want to deal with so they shoved her in daycare so they wouldn't have to deal with her. When they discovered they didn't have time for a dog they shouldn't have had a baby.
I also don't think that women who work out of the home are better mothers than those who choose to stay home to raise their children. There are good mothers in each category. I think for a child the best possible scenario would be to have the mother stay home while the father works and makes a good living for the family. I say the mothers stay home because I believe very strongly that women are better at taking care of children on average than men are. Not saying this is always true and I wouldn't knock anyone who did it the other way around. I am also not putting you down for working, you did what you had to do with what you had AND you put your children first. Obviously you love your kids. There are other mothers in the same category single moms, families that can not possibly live on one income but the children from those families know that there mother HAS to work and that makes them look at things differently than if they know mom is working because her job is more important. Children do know the difference.
To answer why send girls to school - 1) To work until they have children 2) To work P-T while children are in school 3) To work if they choose not to have children 4) To work if there is divorce and they have to support the children. 5) To be a well-educated woman that has the ability to properly bring up the next generation- the most important job of all.
I don't know what daycare centers are like there but here most are not good. I have a friend that worked in a number of govt. approved daycare centers. She was not allowed to: Hug a child under any circumstances (even if the child was hurt), Discipline a child (a loud no is considered discipline), or tell them the true meaning of Christmas and Easter. She finally quit daycare work and started a dayhome. She took in children of divorced parents that wanted the best for their children and wanted someone who would love and care for them as she would her own children.
Nothing is more important than time spent with a parent in my opinion. I am so thankful that my mother worked on the ranch. I could go along with her. We may not have had as much money as we would of had she gone and gotten a different job but the years spent with her made up for it.
OP
OP
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
Victoria, That was an excellent post. :clap:
Horticattleman
Well-known member
The sad thing Mr. Crowder is that all the teachers, like your wife and my whole family, get a big part of the blame from all the parents like they should be disciplining their children. My father taught inmates for 27 years and decided to "cruise in" to retirement by switching to 3rd grade...he lasted one day and begged for his convicts. Too many "parents" blaming the teachers for their shortcomings as a parent. IMHO
skyline
Well-known member
OK, my opinion on this issue can be summed up in one word... "selfishness". When one or both parents put their wants and desires above the needs of their children, that's just selfish... whether it's a Dad running off with his secretary, a parent buying drugs or alcohol that can't afford to feed and cloth their kid, or any other number of situations. The result is a broken family.
I sit and talk with a group of 7th grade boys every Sunday morning at 9:30 am, and it is sickening how few are from dual parent homes with their original parents. Most are shuffled back and forth between two homes and several have no relationship with their dad because he has moved on. One boy started crying as he told me the story of his deadbeat dad, who he loves very much, that will not have anything to do with his son. I think these boys represent a large segment of kids throughout this country. Kids need parents. Parents need to be selfless and love on their kids. And this doesn't mean that every kid with good parents is going to turn out right, because they have a mind of their own. But what an awful disadvantage for a kid to not have good role models in the home.
Sorry for the rant, but this subject is a real sore spot for me. I think selfishness is the root cause of a lot of the problems in our society. My parents adopted me as an infant and sacrificed a lot for my well being. I will be forever grateful for what they did for me.
I sit and talk with a group of 7th grade boys every Sunday morning at 9:30 am, and it is sickening how few are from dual parent homes with their original parents. Most are shuffled back and forth between two homes and several have no relationship with their dad because he has moved on. One boy started crying as he told me the story of his deadbeat dad, who he loves very much, that will not have anything to do with his son. I think these boys represent a large segment of kids throughout this country. Kids need parents. Parents need to be selfless and love on their kids. And this doesn't mean that every kid with good parents is going to turn out right, because they have a mind of their own. But what an awful disadvantage for a kid to not have good role models in the home.
Sorry for the rant, but this subject is a real sore spot for me. I think selfishness is the root cause of a lot of the problems in our society. My parents adopted me as an infant and sacrificed a lot for my well being. I will be forever grateful for what they did for me.
GMN
Well-known member
I was watching this show the other night on PBS about kids and technology, and although I find the internet useful, I do believe it is not always the best thing for kids, and this show was like WOW, these kids need to get a life and get rid of their computers/cell phones, etc... I think MYSpace, and certain other sites are addicting to kids and cause them problems, did you all ever hear of cyber bullying? It blew me away, just how many kids get bullied via the internet, and sadly some actually kill themselves over it, and then the parents wonder why? I do think some parents are clueless, try to be their kids friends, when they need to be parents, set boundaries, have rules and discipline, and interact with their kids, not let them do whatever, wherever.
GMN
GMN
