Looking for Some Answers...

[backhoeboogie]

BHB, thanks for sharing your story. My prayers are with you and your family and especially your daughter for the strength, courage, and conviction to stay the course. It's obvious that you have much wisdom and I know you can help others through similar circumstances.

:lol: Funny thing is, I can't (and couldn't) even help myself. The advice of others really helped me deal with my emotions and the situation. Most of us are ignorant to the real situation. Suicide amongst kids is rampant. I have very much to be thankful for (I didn't push her over the edge) and I have a loving grandson as well as other things I can value. I could have lost it all. We are over the crisis (for now) but others aren't. I appreciate the prayers, sincerely, but we should all pray for others who are in the midst of the crisis.

Crowder started this thread with "Looking for Answers" and I don't have them. I lived it and don't have the answers.

 

[dewey]

people i usually stay clear of these debates like this most of the time they become more of an argument then anything.

lets look back at a few things. when most of us was in school there was a whole different set of rules. you said the pledge and prayer every morning back in elementry school. if you got in a a fight you didnt get the cops called on you. both was took the the Principals office to sort things out usually ended up with a paddlin from the principle and then they notified your parents. if you backed talked a teacher or interupted the class they could paddle your butt then notify your parents and you got another butt whooping at home. but they took all them things out of the school system. as my old Ag teacher used to say, "apply the board of education to the seat of knowledge". now days a kid gets in trouble in school the parents want to whoop the teacher or sue the school. "my little Johnny didnt do that it was provoked etc." back then you learned there are rules you must go by like it or not you go by them and it was reenforced at home. there is a difference between child abuse and a butt whooping but most now days dont know the difference all they know is Child Protective Services.

now take a look at what goes on in our world today. we change all kinda rules laws etc to try to please everyone, immigrants etc. well someone needs to say enough is enough we are the way we are if you dont like it tuff. why are you here if you are so offended?

lets look at another thing. some of these people with a house full of kids get paid for all the kids they have. wonder why they are not interested in a job? foodstamps Lonestar Cards what ever they are called now yet another joke. i have seen people take their cards go shopping for someone else and give the groceries to the person for booze or cash. i have seen parents of kids steal and then get all over the kids for stealing stuff. Gee i wonder where the kids learnt it from? dope may play apart of whats wrong with alot of youngsters but there is usually other factors too.

i have seen a young man that both parents was worthless. Dad was on dope and in jail the youngmans whole life and his mother was on dope and ran off and left him. my brother and sisterinlaw raised the youngman along with his grandmother helped when needed. this youngman got him a job right out of highschool working on computers for an oil Co and makes 80,000 + a year and doesnt touch drugs. he is 22 years old right now and recently quit his job to take some time off. he has saved up enough money he doesnt have to worry about a job for awhile yet.

here is another youngman who came from a stable home parents divorced but mother raised him and his brother. his dad left but sent child support. all his life his mother and aunt made sure he had everything he needed and then some. well this young man is also 22 years old and has had over 15 different jobs since graduation. he couldnt show up to work on time couldnt get along with other employs fell asleep dureing a saftey meeting got fired. these jobs he had the lowest paying one was 9 dollars and hours the highest paying was 13.50 an hour with all benefits. he has held no job longer then a week. he just started a job today makeing 7 dollars an hour.

to me it doesnt matter where the person came from or what kinda back ground it depends on what kinda person the youngster is. it helps if there is one there to help and guide the youngster in the right direction with limited help. not all the kids that are screw up come from bad backgrounds some are just spoiled. most parents want to provide so much for their kids because they feel they didnt have that when they was a kid. them kids dont learn any dicipline because they never had to work for nothing growing up everything was handed to them. most kids now days dont have any kind of chores to do. they come home sit down at the computer or infront of the TV and talk how board they are. some parents feel that the kids being in atheletics in school its just too much for them to have a part time job and keep up in school. well myself i think if they dont have a job they can do chores for their allowance.

there is really no one simple answer to that question there are many faults that was created no one can pin point one direct answer. just because a kid comes from a bad and tough background doesnt mean a thing about how they will turn out. sometimes instead of pointing fingers at others they should point at the one person and start there. thats my few cents worth for now.

i am no writer by far and i am not proof reading any of that if you cant read something up there you just stuck out. :lol2:

 

[backhoeboogie]

people i usually stay clear of these debates

Me too, in the past you'd never catch me in touchy feely discussion. Now I am simply humbled, embarrassed and hate to point fingers. This is difficult discussion.

i am no writer by far and i am not proof reading any of that if you cant read something up there you just stuck out. :lol2:

Dewey you did fine. You spoke up. Everyone has done very well as far as I am concerned. I noted Mike is raising another child too.

 

[Crowderfarms]

BHB, thanks for sharing your story. My prayers are with you and your family and especially your daughter for the strength, courage, and conviction to stay the course. It's obvious that you have much wisdom and I know you can help others through similar circumstances.

:lol: Funny thing is, I can't (and couldn't) even help myself. The advice of others really helped me deal with my emotions and the situation. Most of us are ignorant to the real situation. Suicide amongst kids is rampant. I have very much to be thankful for (I didn't push her over the edge) and I have a loving grandson as well as other things I can value. I could have lost it all. We are over the crisis (for now) but others aren't. I appreciate the prayers, sincerely, but we should all pray for others who are in the midst of the crisis.

Crowder started this thread with "Looking for Answers" and I don't have them. I lived it and don't have the answers.

Do we have future "Colombine" facilitators that are only Juveniles? Tonite my Wife told me about a 7 year old that is upset about the impending Divorce of his parents. Told her that he was going to his neighbors, that have a .22 pistol and shoot himself in the head. This is a SEVEN year old boy.DHS was called in, and I dont know the rest of the details. Makes you wonder if this is a pre-requisite to what the future plans of kids like these are...

 

[larryshoat]

Wow Crowder, what a thread ! I've read every post and it makes me think, what a great group of people are on this board . I can tell every one of you what you are doing right, your out there living your lives as fair, honest, hard working, Christian people, setting an example for those that care enough to follow it. I certainly feel for backhoe, obviously a good man that has had some rough luck but, responded to it in a positive way. I pray for your daughter's full recovery. And Mike C that little girl is adorable, if only her parents new what they were missing.

Larry

 

[TheBullLady]

Very tough discussion. The world has changed so much in the past 30 - 40 years, and I guess we have to change the way we think.

We chose not to have children, and have never regretted the decision. I didn't feel we were mature or responsible enough, and didn't have the means to raise a family for many years. I agree 100% that there are too many irresponsible "kids" having children. The problem is they don't take any responsibility.. they figure mom and dad or sister will raise the babies for them, so they can finish school and party with their friends, lead their lives like before. I feel very sorry for older adults that are raising grandchildren. And not because they can't do it or don't love the kids, but because these are supposed to be their "golden years".. when they can travel or do what they missed while they were raising their children. They are missing out on their own dreams.

I also have to agree that a stay at home mom has got to be the best option. Obviously not everyone can do this... but it's got to be optimal. My mom stayed home with us. And she knew what we were doing all the time, and could usually catch us BEFORE we did stupid things or got into trouble. And when we did get in trouble, we got to suffer the circumstances. Nothing will teach you to make better decisions than that. When parents shield their kids, and don't make them suffer their mistakes, what does that teach the kids? That no matter what they do wrong, someone will get them out of trouble. NOT a good thing to learn for your future. So much is going on with people's lives, I don't know how anyone has time to raise a family. Parents can't spend the time / effort to raise their kids, so they blame someone else when something goes wrong... like a teacher. How can any parent bond with their kids when they put them in day care when they're six months old? Now some stranger is raising their kids while they work, get stressed out, don't want the aggravation after a day of work of trying to solve their kids problems. So kids go on the internet without supervision and find all kinds of trouble to get into.

I can't even fathom a high schooler going home, getting a gun and going to his school and shooting his teachers and classmates. What can be going on in that youngsters mind? Very sad.. and scary.

 

[GMN]

BHB, thanks for sharing your story. My prayers are with you and your family and especially your daughter for the strength, courage, and conviction to stay the course. It's obvious that you have much wisdom and I know you can help others through similar circumstances.

:lol: Funny thing is, I can't (and couldn't) even help myself. The advice of others really helped me deal with my emotions and the situation. Most of us are ignorant to the real situation. Suicide amongst kids is rampant. I have very much to be thankful for (I didn't push her over the edge) and I have a loving grandson as well as other things I can value. I could have lost it all. We are over the crisis (for now) but others aren't. I appreciate the prayers, sincerely, but we should all pray for others who are in the midst of the crisis.

Crowder started this thread with "Looking for Answers" and I don't have them. I lived it and don't have the answers.

Do we have future "Colombine" facilitators that are only Juveniles? Tonite my Wife told me about a 7 year old that is upset about the impending Divorce of his parents. Told her that he was going to his neighbors, that have a .22 pistol and shoot himself in the head. This is a SEVEN year old boy.DHS was called in, and I dont know the rest of the details. Makes you wonder if this is a pre-requisite to what the future plans of kids like these are...

Sadly a 7 year old, no way knows what will happen if they really shoot themselves in the head, because they have no concepot of death yet. This is probably something he/she heard on a video game or TV. A definete cry for help though.

GMN

 

[angie2]

I have been watching this thread and wanting to say something but not sure what. I think its important that people know how many parents there are like BHB out there.

Every other Sunday I run visiting at the jail, signing people in and setting them up. Again and again I see parents coming in to see their children in jail. These parents are good, decent, hard working, honest people. They were boy scout leaders for their kids troup, they were 4-H leaders, they were coaches and Sunday school teachers. They were active participants in the lives of their kids. They showed up for the school functions, and gave their children a good example of hard work and honesty to live by.

And now here they are on the other side of the desk, holding the hand of their grandbaby, continuing to support. They are embarrassed and broken hearted. They are confused about how this happened and what they should do next. I tell them the most healing thing I know how ~ "I have stood on your side of the desk. I have no answers, but I understand."

 

[Wewild]

I tell them the most healing thing I know how ~ "I have stood on your side of the desk. I have no answers, but I understand."

i think you are right.

 

[backhoeboogie]

There are some differences amongst us in some of the posts as you read back over this whole thread. Perhaps a few misunderstandings or perhaps some of us are a bit sensitive, me especially. We all have common ground too. We all want what is best for kids - all kids. We can't go back to the way things were for me in the 60's or even for the way it was for my kids in the 80's. But we can go forward. We can make a difference is some childs life somewhere. You just never know what that kid has seen or how bad it is.

Crowder I do hope the kid with the suicide thought was reaching out for help as GMN said. I don't know what DHS is but I pray they are something like CPS here and that they are successful, for that kid's sake.

I applaud you all for what you do.

Please excuse all my rambling.

 

[Crowderfarms]

BHB, DHS is Department of Human Services. Wife says their people are at the school several times a month talking to kids, and investigating what is going on in the home.Guess it's not a new problem, but a problem on the rampage, and one maybe getting some much needed attention.

 

[Calman]

I just don't have any answers to how to raise children in today's world.It's hard.
I do think that mothers working and away from home is not the main problem,my thoughts are not allowing our creator and his teachings to be in our home has a way lot more to do with it.
We can find time for our own thing,bar time,boweling,and so on.We seem to make time for all this,but don't ya think that making family time,like at least one hour a day for just family would help? When I raised my 4 children I was the only parent and worked an eight hour a day job.But we always had a family together time. And was usally at the evening meal.We all set down at the table and discussed things without tv radio or any phone causing interuption.My kids got in the habit of freely discussing what was on their mind. I really enjoyed that time together and we all talk about what an impression it made on our life yet today. My thoughts are, If you think it's important to spend time with your family you will make time for it.
This is nor a answer to all,or a cure all problems but you sure do get to know your children better this way.You can install good clean software in a computer and thats all you will see from it until you hook up to the internet then it has all kinds of different things that you dont want on it.
Children taught right from wrong grow up knowing the difference,and although when they get out from home into the world they might be influenced to go the other way but they usally fall back to the way they we're raised. It just takes some longer than others.
Reading these posts on this subject for the most part their is some real good info on here and some wonderfull caring parents and grandparents. But the bottom line is you do your best and the rest is up to the individual child. If you gave it your best to your knowledge ,raised your child the best you knew how,What more could you have done? But on the other hand if you just let the child do whatever and never took the time to listen,love and teach THEN YOU ARE TO BLAME.

Cal

 

[rockridgecattle]

I read this whole thread through tonight for the first time. All I can say is wow. Here we too have alot of grandparents raising their grand children. And it is sad. Sad that these young adults could raise there own children if they truely wanted to. (non are in jail like BHB, and others here on thi thread...hats off to you for stepping up and being there, doing what needs to be done and loving them). They just wanted to have fun, got pregnant, left the kids with the grandparents and continued on their merry way....some doing it again.
We also have alot of kids in foster care here. And that to is sad.
We can't have children, want them badly. We can't afford the adoption fees or the other reproductive fees. And it makes me so angry that these irresponsibe selfish childish people keep having kids they do not want just because the want to have fun. Some of these deadbeats come from good homes, some from good Christian homes.
Kids need the unconditional love and support of their parents. And their parents need to grow up, grab a life and be parent to their kids
I'm gonna stop now...ticking me off

 

[backhoeboogie]

You folks need to keep going. Don't stop just when it starts getting to the good parts!!
:lol:

We went to see this daughter on Saturday. About an hour into the drive my 18 month grandson said, "Momma?" in his questioning tone.

It is pretty much just like Angie describes.

There was a long line so she was in the visitation room before we got there. We went through the doors and my grandson spotted his mother. He took off for her yelling, "Momma, Momma, Momma" all the way there, ran right past the guards, jumped at her and she picked him up. His little fists were clenched as he wrapped them around her neck. Everyone in the place had a smile. Yeah. It is worth it.

 

[GMN]

You folks need to keep going. Don't stop just when it starts getting to the good parts!!
:lol:

We went to see this daughter on Saturday. About an hour into the drive my 18 month grandson said, "Momma?" in his questioning tone.

It is pretty much just like Angie describes.

There was a long line so she was in the visitation room before we got there. We went through the doors and my grandson spotted his mother. He took off for her yelling, "Momma, Momma, Momma" all the way there, ran right past the guards, jumped at her and she picked him up. His little fists were clenched as he wrapped them around her neck. Everyone in the place had a smile. Yeah. It is worth it.

I hope that will be a great incentive for your daughter to stay on the straight and narrow when she does get out. Its a good story, but kind of sad too.

GMN

 

[perda04]

Some people don't shoulder the child raising responsibility well at all.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/15167004/detai ... g&psp=news

 

[Anonymous]

Drugs seam to be the common denominator. When parents set around and use drugs and drink alcohol and accept alcohol as a lesser evil the only ones they are fooling is themselves.

Alcohol will bite one in the but just like drugs just not as quick. So when you accept the use of something for your own pleasures then the children become more lienent, to talk like its ok by their piers. Or they just want vices of their piers because mom and dad practice and accept the vices that harm families. Each generation is supposed to learn from the past generations mistakes. Seems like it should be the norm when its actually the opposite quite rare to be exact.

 

[wtexasfam]

"It takes a Village to Raise a Child" ... Nooooo! It takes a (responsible!) mom and a (responsible!) dad to raise a child.

 

[backhoeboogie]

"It takes a Village to Raise a Child" ... Nooooo! It takes a (responsible!) mom and a (responsible!) dad to raise a child.

Yes. And responsible parents still is not a guarantee. Even with the assistance of grandparents reinforcing them.

Structural steel buildings have very strong pillars and cross beams. But it takes the little nuts and bolts to join them together. So be sure nothing is left out.

 

[angie1]

Yes. And responsible parents still is not a guarantee. Even with the assistance of grandparents reinforcing them.

Structural steel buildings have very strong pillars and cross beams. But it takes the little nuts and bolts to join them together. So be sure nothing is left out.

Well said.

I taught school for 14 years. I sat in on countless meetings with responsible parents and a team of others all working together to help a kid who was struggling in one way or another. A team working together towards the same end.