Local Seedstock Producers

[HOSS]

I was at a cattleman's meeting recently when one of the local seed stock producers was asked if he steered any of his bull calves. He said that he does not castrate any at all that they were all being sold as breeding stock. A few other seed stock producers in the room nodded in agreement that this was also their standard practice. A couple of other breeders spoke up to say that they do castrate the calves that are sub-par at a certain age and only keep the best bull calves for sale as breeding stock. I was dissapointed that it seemed to be mostly the local BA breeders that did not castrate any bull calves as that is the breed that I am raising. I see really good Herf and Charolais bulls in local pastures but very few BA bulls that look good. Now I know why I and my two neighbors are having to go out of our area to get good bulls. I wonder if this is more widespread then just this area due to the increasing poularity of the BA breed and I wonder just how bad this practice is hurting the breed overall.

 

[Diehard40]

supply and demand
That just tells you that many of these producers buying bulls from breeders that sell every bull are often getting subpar bulls. these are usually the producers that want a registered bull for stockyard price. I would question a seedstock producer that sells all bulls and doesn't in essence cull any males. You know they aren't looking out 100% for their customers.

 

[dun]

What to me is just as bad is the producers that think every registerable heifer is breeding stock quality.

dun

 

[UG]

Even the VERY BEST herds in the country are going to have bulls and heifer calves born EVERY YEAR that shouldn't be kept as breeding stock.

Unfortunately, there are producers out there (both seedstock and commercial) that think that nearly any animal with a pedigree is magically superior to crossbred and commercial animals.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

Not all producers castrate their cull bulls, they sell them as meat,and get the growth factor of the hormones,or just sell them through the sale barn to commercial breeders.Not all seedstock producers are guilty of selling what should be cull bulls or heifers for breeding,but a lot probably are.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Even the VERY BEST herds in the country are going to have bulls and heifer calves born EVERY YEAR that shouldn't be kept as breeding stock.

Unfortunately, there are producers out there (both seedstock and commercial) that think that nearly any animal with a pedigree is magically superior to crossbred and commercial animals.

:nod: :frowns: :nod:

Katherine

 

[MikeC]

You know they aren't looking out 100% for their customers.

I am proponent of hardline/radical culling. But when a guy comes to your place and willingly purchases a less than quality animal for breeding purposes is it really the breeders fault?

Who am I to tell him what he don't need?

Just making the point that some people don't know enough about cattle to be in the business to start with.

Then we blame his breeding decisions on the Purebred guy?

Just about everytime someone comes to pick a bull from a pen of the same priced animals..........they pick the biggest one whether he's best or not.

I kinda see both sides of the issue.

 

[DFF]

What to me is just as bad is the producers that think every registerable heifer is breeding stock quality.

dun

Isn't that the truth, I had a long timer in the business that cringed many years ago, when just about every black male was kept back as a low birth wt. angus he predicted the exact contriversery that is going on today with the labeling problems!

 

[Wewild]

What to me is just as bad is the producers that think every registerable heifer is breeding stock quality.

dun

What is worse is not being able to tell the difference as a buyer.

The culls can be seen when viewed and in this day and age with epds, the 2 together ought to make for a good decision by most.

I've seen good epd cattle that don't make the cut as you have said in many of your post about sending them down the road.

"Caveat emptor"

 

[MikeC]

What to me is just as bad is the producers that think every registerable heifer is breeding stock quality.

dun

On several occasions I have moved registered heifers over to the commercial pasture that didn't have the quite the phenotype I thought was conducive for registered breeders.

And more than a few times they came back to the registered herd and turned out great.

If we all had the same eye for cattle this thing would be a snap. Oh, it's easy to remove the obvious ones alright. But the borderline ones sometimes deserve a chance to prove them selves.

What's the old saying? "you can improve your herd 100% by culling the bottom 50%"

But which ones are the bottom ones?

 

[alftn]

I see the big ranchers, with many cows, writing about AI.,oval transplants, and etc. But the truth of matter is that most pure breed Black Angus Bulls or for that matter any pure breed bulls except for the worst 5 % of each would proply be a improvement on the average Small farm in the country..I read you guys posts,,, and for the most part you all are full of do-do...Except Dun, he is my hero...Yes in any given year I could cull half my calves( females) and sometimes more, but looks can be wrong.....them ugly cows can make soom beautiful babies...as far as crosses..they are great but you got to have Black AngusX Red Herfords to get them Black baldies... I remember when cows were small,Herefords were King and cont. did not exist..Watch cows get big then smaller , every breed have it day....but like it or not The Black Angus is King...may changein the furture, as for now that is the way it is...

 

[dun]

What to me is just as bad is the producers that think every registerable heifer is breeding stock quality.

dun

On several occasions I have moved registered heifers over to the commercial pasture that didn't have the quite the phenotype I thought was conducive for registered breeders.

And more than a few times they came back to the registered herd and turned out great.

If we all had the same eye for cattle this thing would be a snap. Oh, it's easy to remove the obvious ones alright. But the borderline ones sometimes deserve a chance to prove them selves.

What's the old saying? "you can improve your herd 100% by culling the bottom 50%"

But which ones are the bottom ones?

It's particularly difficult when it's weaning time and you have to decide to ship them to the backgrounder or keep/sell them as replacements. I've never had one that I kept because it was marginal and later had it turn out to be a good producer. But I cheat. If she isn;t a keeper as a weanling she just goes down the road to end up in the feedlot.

dun

 

[Frankie]

What to me is just as bad is the producers that think every registerable heifer is breeding stock quality.

dun

On several occasions I have moved registered heifers over to the commercial pasture that didn't have the quite the phenotype I thought was conducive for registered breeders.

And more than a few times they came back to the registered herd and turned out great.

If we all had the same eye for cattle this thing would be a snap. Oh, it's easy to remove the obvious ones alright. But the borderline ones sometimes deserve a chance to prove them selves.

What's the old saying? "you can improve your herd 100% by culling the bottom 50%"

But which ones are the bottom ones?

Good post, Mike. We don't cut any bull calves. If they don't perform on test, they go to the sale barn with no ear tags or papers. Just another fat black bull. If the heifers don't breed on time or have dispositon problems, etc., they go to the sale barn with no ear tags or papers.

We figured out a while ago that what we like isn't necessarily what the buyer is looking for. And that a calf coming off his dam in a hot dry year may/will look much different after he's spent 112 days eating his fill.

We've got the sister of a bull that was the high indexer on his test. But she weaned at about 400 lbs and looked terrible. She was headed for the sale barn. She fell into the weaning ration with her contemporaries like she was starving. We just couldn't reconcile ourselves to how she could be so bad, with the breeding she had. As it turned out, her dam had raised her on only one good quarter on her udder! She went to the sale barn, the heifer is five years old now and has more than paid her way.

 

[ENNOT]

I would agree that you don't need to castrate all the bulls that aren't the best. Especially if you can feed them yourself. By the time you start selling bulls, you can eliminate the bottom 25 to 50%, and move them to another area to finish off for slaughter or sell them at the sale barn.

Then potential buyers get the chance to look over what the breeder thinks are the tops. If the buyer picks a lower quality, "cheaper" bull, thats his one decision. I have seen it every year, either they come and buy the biggest one, like what MikeC said, or they look at the price list and go right to the cheapest bulls, when for $250 to $500 more they can get a good one.

Most registered breeders that want to build a program are going to offer the best they can in order to get people coming back. The ones that think they are all good won't last long in the registered game. And there are alot of them out there.

 

[Susie David]

Hate to say it but not all the folks are able to afford the best bulls...so a guy goes with the best that his budget will allow.
We went looking to select from a couple of bulls and ended up buying one that we didn't even consider just from the "papers".
But then, we know the breeder and her animals and trust her judgement and she culls her bull crop pretty heavily.
DMc