True Grit - Seedstock

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Bright Raven

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Vince,

I address this to you. In the past couple months you have initiated threads on Seedstock issues. You had the one that discussed seller obligations. Recently, you have mentioned a new law you passed requiring all seedstock producers to shoot a per cent of their calf crop behind the left ear. I cannot remember what the percentage is but I remember you saying it is strictly enforced.

As the self appointed Enforcer of the National Seedstock Act would you please outline the primary statues and what the penalties Are?

BTW: this is a clear contradiction of your assertion of being a conservative. Come on! Tell the truth! You voted for Hillary.
 

True Grit Farms

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I just try and do what I feel is right for the situation. I'm going to do my best to make sure that the phenotype is correct on the cattle that I sell as seedstock. Genomic testing and EPD'S don't mean anything if the animal has a bad udder or wrong color, or color in the wrong spots. And to make matters worse, lots of times a bad udder won't show up till just before - after the first calf. I usually cull for bad udders, and the wrong color goes into my commercial or recip herd.
My cull rate is 70-80% on seedstock. But I don't want to sell anything off the farm anymore.

The penalty is self inflicted. Some folks can't live within their own body without altering their state mind.
I'll try and refrain from politics and religion. Because you know how I voted, and that I'm a sinner.
 
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Bright Raven

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Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.
 

Nesikep

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Bright Raven":3sp14dfh said:
Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.
PETA member in disguise warning here!!! :p

Are we talking dogs or cows? Sounds like a puppy mill situation.

IN my situation, I keep about 30-40% of my heifers as replacements, and once every few years I'll keep a bull (about a 95% steer rate), and the last one I kept got culled as a yearling for not living up to expectations. I base it mostly on temperament and phenotype, and past experiences with that family of cows... Yeah, I wish my current bull didn't have the white spotting gene, and it may come back to bite me later, I'll have to deal with that down the line I guess, but in the grand scheme of raising beef, it's of lesser importance than hooves, udders, and generally sound conformation, which I think this guy has going for him
 

True Grit Farms

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Bright Raven":hth76zlh said:
Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.

I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?
 
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Bright Raven

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True Grit Farms":25y5d7l8 said:

Grit: every cowboy and cowgirl on this forum knows of mistreated cattle. I mention that only to put it into perspective.

Grit, my point is you do a lot of posturing about how the seedstock business should or should not be run. I am not complaining. I take it for exactly what it is: commentary. Just don't get upset if I think it is mostly hot air.
 
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Bright Raven

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True Grit Farms":rnk6v253 said:
Bright Raven":rnk6v253 said:
Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.

I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?

You make it sound like someone is deliberately pursuing a course of raising poor cattle! Tell me who that is?
 
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Bright Raven

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True Grit Farms":18n9n0px said:
Bright Raven":18n9n0px said:
Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.

I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?

Grit: I think you mean the right "traits" for the breed. Phenotype is the outward expression of the genotype.
 

callmefence

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True Grit Farms":2i36jq7f said:
Bright Raven":2i36jq7f said:
Vince,

Personally, I don't think I have a right or privilege to inject myself into how anyone husbands their cattle. If I did, phenotype would not be my concern. My bigger concern would be the horrible conditions some cattle are produced in.

You are more concerned with where a spot is. I am more concerned with cattle raised in manure up to their knees and footrot so bad their claws are falling off.

I'd be more worried about how some people live in your beloved Africa. We're raising cattle for the enjoyment of doing it, dang sure not the money. So why not do the right thing and raise cattle that have the right phenotype for the breed?

Why is that the only right thing.
What's wrong with a working man who is lucky enough to get to do this letting his cattle work for him. Americans do eat hamburger you know. I must have to much to do. I don't worry much about others run their business.
 
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Bright Raven

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M-5":2s63em31 said:
Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.

I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:
 

callmefence

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Bright Raven":1gcvar0e said:
M-5":1gcvar0e said:
Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.

I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:

Not a problem I've ever had but..

Have you tried making your water , feed, mineral as far apart as possible to get the cows to travel more.
 

True Grit Farms

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Bright Raven":3nnbf5mj said:
M-5":3nnbf5mj said:
Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.

I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:

Can you imagine what the price of seedstock would be without the small operation?
 
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Bright Raven

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True Grit Farms":1mgeqiml said:
Bright Raven":1mgeqiml said:
M-5":1mgeqiml said:
Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.

I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:

Can you imagine what the price of seedstock would be without the small operation?

Vince: how do you define seedstock? You put me in that category this morning with that comment about double edge sword. Why do you say I do "tremendous" damage?
 
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Bright Raven

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callmefence":1eqx3wrf said:
Bright Raven":1eqx3wrf said:
M-5":1eqx3wrf said:
Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.

I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:

Not a problem I've ever had but..

Have you tried making your water , feed, mineral as far apart as possible to get the cows to travel more.

In the summer, my bred cows are on the back of the farm. There is a creek back there that flows all the time unless there is a drought. So water and grass are always available. I have three mineral stations.
 

WalnutCrest

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Bright Raven":3q3j5qm7 said:
M-5":3q3j5qm7 said:
Your view of ideal cow conditions is slightly tilted , all of us don't pet or get too concerned if you can see a little pin or a rib.

I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:

Based on what you've described, you're definitely understocked.
 

True Grit Farms

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Bright Raven":1fuy1cuh said:
True Grit Farms":1fuy1cuh said:
Bright Raven":1fuy1cuh said:
I do not view over conditioned cows as ideal. Despite what TT keeps saying about feeding grain, I don't feed enough to cause the condition problem I have. It is a combination of easy keeping cows and excellent forage. Fire Sweep says I am under stocked.

I am concerned about 4 of my cows. I do not consider over conditioned cows as IDEAL.

I apologize to Vince if I hurt his feelings. :D

He posted this earlier:
Raven folks like you are a double edged sword. On one hand they help the seedstock market, on the other they damage it tremendously.

I am only defending myself. :cboy:

Can you imagine what the price of seedstock would be without the small operation?

Vince: how do you define seedstock? You put me in that category this morning with that comment about double edge sword. Why do you say I do "tremendous" damage?

http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/193 ... seedstock/
This is pretty much defines how I feel. Or whenever you sell something to someone for breeding purposes.
The tremendous damage is two fold, price and quality. Your not as worried about phenotype - traits as you should be for the betterment of the breed. Your more into the docility - show aspect which is a great way to find buyers, most everyone likes to pet, brush and lead cattle. Docility is important but can never make up for the lack of proper phenotype - traits. Using the proper or in proper traits - phenotype types last along time in a commercial herd.
 

dun

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callmefence":13icodq7 said:
What's wrong with a working man who is lucky enough to get to do this letting his cattle work for him. Americans do eat hamburger you know. I must have to much to do. I don't worry much about others run their business.
I personally have no problem with whatever quality cattle someone wants ro raise. What POs me is when they then complain because someone raising better quality more in demand cattle get more at sale time.
 

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