Know about Angus? I guess you do Sir!

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Ricker

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As I mentioned in my opening post the other day, I am a land developer and investor by trade. I am in the process of putting some cattle on some of my land holdings.

For the last few weeks I have been talking on the phone with a man about some land he has for sale in N. Georgia. A very nice, polite gentleman it seemed.

Today when he called me to continue our discussions on some of his land I am thinking of buying, I mentioned to him that I was meeting my cow hand soon to finalize some preparations to deliver some black cows I am purchasing by private treaty. He said "Rick, as I told you the other day, I know a thing or two about Angus Cattle." "When you come up to GA next week, I will show you around the operations here."

I did a search on Google tonight with these key words: Virgil Lovell - Georgia - Angus. I guess Mr Lovell is right. He might know a thing or two about Angus Cattle!!!

Below is the link to a website but here is an excerpt from it:

In December 1990, the world lost one of its most influential leaders and dedicated Angus breeders with the death of Dr. Armand Hammer. The Ankony herd was to remain intact as Virgil Lovell, a Georgia cattleman-businessman, stepped forward and fulfilled a boyhood dream of "some day owning Ankony." He not only purchased the Ankony herd but also the name, trademarks and the Minatare Ranch facilities. It would be hard to have picked a buyer to carry on the great Ankony name with more enthusiasm and respect than Virgil Lovell.


Mr. Lovell achieved his desire to own Ankony, and even more. . .he re-acquired his much admired and his favorite sire, Lovana.

From boyhood, Virgil Lovell has been a student of pedigrees. He has always followed the Ankony program closely, and had a plan in mind when the purchase was made. He knew the strength of the Ankony cow herd loaded with half and three-quarter sisters. . . most of them in the Ankony herd for three maternal generations or more. He also knew the herd was positioned right for major change.

During the 70s and through the 80s Mr. Lovell was involved in breeding some of the most valuable and winningest cattle in the country involving Angus, Chianina, Brangus, Salers and Charolais. He was responsible for breeding two National Grand and Reserve Salers females, the Grand Champion Bull at the 10th Anniversary World Show and the Brangus Sire of the Year in 1986 and 1987. Also, three National Grand and three Reserve Charolais females, twice Premier Breeder and Exhibitor, two National Grand Champion Bulls and National Reserve Grand, and the highest averaging sale in the modern history of the Charolais breed. His Angus operation was responsible for sales that were always in the top five gross and average from 1979 through 1984 and was in the top three or four nationally competitive firms.



One of the many winning Ankony car loads at Denver.

For 30 years Ankony had been managed under a large corporate structure. It was now in the hands of a man who had been through the ups and downs of kind and pedigree, of shape and size. An individualistic approach to the focus of Ankony was in Mr. Lovell's hands.
Lovana and Bold Ruler, both outcross sires, had made major contributions to the Ankony program. Their daughters were the bread and butter of Ankony. It had been eight years since any major genetic boost had been give this cow herd from "outside" genetics.


Intense study of the current industry demands and direction, available genetics and applicable technology combined with a vision of the future prompted a re-direction. . .and a New Era began. It was open-minded, science-based and an aggressive approach to documentable genetic improvement in volume. It was time for a new influx of genetics and personnel.


This led to the hiring of Dr. Dave Duello, with a Ph.D. in Beef Cattle Breeding from Iowa State University, and whose major area of study was in the genetic evaluation of carcass traits using ultrasound technology. Dr. Duello was trained by some of the foremost beef cattle geneticists in the country. He combined this technical training with a life history of real world beef cattle experience and has become a widely recognized judge of beef cattle in the U.S.


Mr. Lovell then selected balanced performance sires with high accuracy EPDs. He had another qualification they must meet. . .they must have ready breeder recognition and broad popularity within the breed and industry. New genetic sires of the 21st Century were selected and used artificially in this unique cow herd. More new sires followed. . .each with an Ankonian name. . .Alliance, Elixir and One.


The decision to select sires with an outstanding balance of EPDs didn't stop with the traditional measures of performance. Carcass traits of ribeye, backfat and marbling also received worthy attention. Use of both carcass EPDs and ultrasound technology seemed the most logical approach. Research in this area with Iowa State University and Texas Tech University has proven ultrasonic measurements of carcass traits in animals to be a reliable and valuable tool to enhance carcass trait improvement. It has also provided a database for sire evaluation that is faster and more economical than traditional approaches.


From the first crop of calves from the "new" program, Ankony extended a long tradition of successes in the bull carload and pen shows at the National Western Stock Show by taking Reserve Grand Champion honors in both the Carload and Pen divisions in 1994 and 1995. Although the new policy reduced Ankony's participation in traditional shows, many noteworthy champions carried the Ankony trademark in the hands of other breeders and juniors.


More here:

http://www.pineridgeangus.com/history.html
 
I just saw this too. Maybe I need to go up there on Oct 23rd :lol: I am excited!!!
1.jpeg
 
Ricker-

This post on Pine Ridge and the History of the Ankony Herd is exactly what I was referring to in a previous post a couple of days ago. . You MUST educate yourself and learn what this business is all about, and then you will understand what most of us have been telling you. You think that you are excited NOW! :shock: When you peruse a herd with the quality of some of these very high quality registered programs, your heart will beat faster, you will get butterfly's in your stomach, your mouth will get "cotton dry', you will have to visit the rest room, and you will say, "NOW I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!!" If you are going to get in the Beef BU$INE$$ - - DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

DOC HARRIS
 
Hey Doc, on that note, after some checking I found this out: that angus bull of mine came from Baldwin in Ocala with papers. I feel better about him already. :)
 
Ricker":1yr4p87g said:
I am sure some on here have heard of Ankony?

Yes. They have a long history. I think the name has been bought and sold several times. It's good to see you excited, but take your time. Know where you plan to go with your cattle. Where you will market them? I can tell you that buying Angus cattle is a lot of fun; marketing them can be fun, too. But if you've paid $100,000 for a cow, that doesn't insure that the calf will sell for big bucks. Enjoy the sale.

http://www.angusjournal.com/articlePDF/ ... Legacy.pdf
 
Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not going to buy any Purebred cows right now (maybe a bull for $2,000 or $3,000 llocal here in FL).

I am just excited about learning some more new things. I have to meet him to look at his land I may be buying from him anyway. I just thought it was interesting and would be nice to see his operation.

Now land, that is another thing altogether. But, that is what I do.

Great read by the way thanks foir the link.
 
Ricker":3lyxx946 said:
I am sure some on here have heard of Ankony?
Ricker - Ankony was probably THE most well-known Angus Establishment name from 1940 through 2000+ with a history to match! Contact the American Angus Association and inquire about the history of "Ankony Angus" and they will be happy to send you some material of the herd AND the Angus breed. When you read and learn - - THEN you will begin to understand!

DOC HARRIS
 
Hey Ricker,
I am going to try to make the sale too. it is only 10 minutes away,and they (Brogdons) are kinfolk. my grandma and Buddy's daddy are cousins ( i think thats right, should pay more attention).
She grew up right close to that farm so i took her for a ride reminiscing about the oldern days the other day and the bulls were looking pretty good from the road.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2dupr6jp said:
When you go to Ankony - be sure to also check out his great herd of SIMMENTAL that he has been acquiring & developing. Mostly REDS ( if not all).

at one point they were using simmental cows in their ET program. we bought a simmental bull from a man who they had bought all of the heifers to use for that purpose. he only lasted about a few months before he got a leg broke but he had some dandy calves (other than being a little lacking in the butt). they have made some nice milking and fertile cows.
 
Funny thing. I got the papers from my bull today and it looks like his Grandfather was from the Ankony line. The name was Ankonian Dynamo.

As you guys know, though I have no idea how to read the papers. I might scan them and post them if someone wants to take the time to tell me what it all means.

For instance the EPD codes for the sire show birth: I +.1

I have no idea what that means.
 
Ricker,
Wow Dynamo is OLDDDDD (Born in the 1970s I think). Not anything wrong with that though.

About reading the papers

I +.1 (The "I" stands for interim) It will be removed when they run the numbers again (December 2006). The .1 is the actual value when compared with the avg of the breed (BW the avg is ~ 2.5) So your bull should be EXPECTED to sire calves that are 2.4# lighter than the avg Angus sire. EXPECTED is the key word EPDs change and without registered calves in the database his accuracy will be low ~ .05. So his numbers could change a bunch.

PM me if you want any help I will be glad to tell you what I know. I also think you ought to go get another bull. Find a program that impresses you but more importantly raises their cows the same way you plan to raise yours as far as feed programs and goals, then you have a place to buy your bulls or even females and you know what to expect when you get them home.
 
So your bull should be EXPECTED to sire calves that are 2.4# lighter than the avg Angus sire.

Not to be picky, BUT EPDs don't compare a bull to average Angus sires. Average changes every sire summary. EPDs are compared to 0 and that doesn't change. If this bull has a .1 BW EPD, you would expect his calves to weigh .1 pound more than a bull with a BW EPD of 0. Or, as you said, 2.4# lighter than a bull with a BW EPD of 2.5.

And the "I" will only be removed if data is reported through the AHIR program on his calves in a proper contemporary group.

Ricker, you can just post his registeration # and we can look him up at the Angus site. If he's been transferred to your name, that will show your name and address, though. You might rather scan them.

To put it simply, EPDs allow you to compare one breeding animal of the same breed to another. If you have a bull with a BW EPD of 5 and a WW of 5, you would EXPECT his calves to weigh five more pounds at birth and weaning than if you bred those same cows to a bull with a BW & WW EPD of 0. The other EPDs work the same; use them to compare animals to figure out which ones will work best for you. Too much milk? Look for a bull with balanced EPDs, but a lower milk EPD. Sell your calves at weaning? Look for a balanced bull with a larger WW EPD. EPDs never tell you what a calf will weigh.
 
Not to be picky, BUT EPDs don't compare a bull to average Angus sires. Average changes every sire summary. EPDs are compared to 0 and that doesn't change. If this bull has a .1 BW EPD, you would expect his calves to weigh .1 pound more than a bull with a BW EPD of 0. Or, as you said, 2.4# lighter than a bull with a BW EPD of 2.5
Frankie - you stated ". . .not to be picky," but you are incorrect in your answer to Ricker. The American Angus Association, in their EXPLANATION of Expected Progeny Differences (EPD's) states, "Expected Progeny Difference (EPD) is the prediction of how future progeny of each animal are expected to perform relative to the progeny of other animals listed in the database. EPD's are expressed in units of measure for the trait, plus or minus. Interim EPD's may appear on young animals when their performance has yet to be incorporated into the American Angus Association National Cattle Evaluation (NCE). This EPD will be preceded by an "I", and may or may not include the animal's own performance record for a particular trait, depending on its availability, appropriate contemporary grouping, or data edits needed for NCE.

Note the specific phrase, " . . .relative to the progeny of other animals listed in the database."

I think that the most obvious reason many breeders say that they ". . don't believe in EPD's" or that they ". . .don't use EPD's" is because they don't COMPLETELY understand EPD's! They think it means one thing because somebody said this or that or the other thing, but they have never really tried to UNDERSTAND what they REALLY are and what they really SAY! And that is their big loss. A breeder should do what he thinks is correct - but do those things for the right reasons!

Use EPD's as a TOOL - not as a Template or Archetype!

DON'T GET ME STARTED!

DOC HARRIS
 

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