Keep or breed back?

[MurraysMutts]

So I lost a calf. Cows and calves have been hanging out in the barn. One calf managed to get stepped on. I saw him down there by himself, and thought it was odd, so went to check on him. Had to put him down. Upon butchering said calf, we found a large area on his right side that has clotted up pretty bad. Calf was 6 weeks old. Made some roasts and whole filet and strips. (Tiny of coarse)
Anyway...

I skinned him and penned mama. Was going to graft a bottle calf I have. Shes never been penned up really. This is her 2nd calf. Raised a good one last year and this one wouldve been a better one. She tore the pen up. I dont have a great pen. Basically just a bunch of panels made into a round pen. Good enough for reasonable cows. Lol

I don't think I want to fight her. I could possibly load her up and take to a friends with a better pen and try to graft. But that's a good amount of work on a tight schedule this time of year.

Anyways.. should I give her another chance?
Pretty mad about it right now and I figure I better think on it.

 

[Son of Butch]

Available time and facilities are major factors in decisions.
Whatever you decide, it's not the end of the world if you send her to slaughter.

 

[daneg]

Get rid of her. With no calf this year she will never repay her pasture and winter feed cost.

 

[Shoestring]

Get rid of her. With no calf this year she will never repay her pasture and winter feed cost.

Ok. She had 2 good calves. What do you replace her with? Unknown pregnant cow? Save and raise one of this years newborn = 3yrs before a calf. I am very limited on field space, but shoot, $350? For winter hay, I say bred her back and move on. Next year you have a known good momma with a new calf. Am I missing something?

 

[Ky hills]

If she is a good cow, and the calf loss was an accident, then I am likely to give a cow another chance. If it's a cow that doesn't raise that good of a calf or has some problem like disposition or not real regular at calving on time, then I cull them.

 

[Brute 23]

If your worried about temperament then always go with you gut.

I personally would keep her if you think she is a quality animal. We dont have sale barn cows so I cant just run down to the barn and grab another. Plus, I do believe in karma.

Like others have said though, if she is bottom of your genetic pool or you can see any reason at all she wont be at you place long term, cut your losses now. Dont ignore a gut feeling just to cull her two calves from now.

 

[jerry27150]

all cows on my place have to raise a live ,sellable calf or they go in calf's place. make my living off of them. i always have replacements coming to replace any that can't do the job

 

[farmerjan]

6 weeks is getting old to try to graft a new calf on a momma. If you are tight for pasture or something like that, then maybe sell her. But, it wasn't that she was not taking care of it. At 6 weeks, the calf was in the wrong place at the wrong time. We pulled a calf from a cow this year and it was dead. Not close to the barn so had to go through several fields and didn't get her in til 2 days. Had a bottle calf that was on my nurse cow that I could have put on her, but she showed no interest in taking it and it was on the nurse cow so leave well enough alone after 2 days trying.... She is a decent cow, raises a good calf. So she just went to pasture and will get bred back and will have a chance to do it next year.
We buy some cows and might have replaced her but she is not a big cow so cull price might have been 4-500 at best. We are not cramped for space, and have a couple of old cows that will go so not going to ship a good cow that things just went wrong. We have had the worst year ever this year....a prolapsed newly purchased heifer that didn't make it after vet put it back in, pulled the dead calf, lost a calf that we tagged but didn't see who the momma was, and another one, first calf heifer, that we paired with an untagged new calf that we aren't really sure was hers, she might have had the tagged one that died, but she has taken it. Have about 20 that are late calving that were checked pregnant, so don't know what is going on.... one calved yesterday but we should be done. There will be 2 in there that are open, one that we knew her calf died, and one for the tagged unclaimed calf....but not getting them in to check right now, as hay will be in the forefront next week and my final push to finish moving into the new house by June 1st.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Ok. She had 2 good calves. What do you replace her with? Unknown pregnant cow? Save and raise one of this years newborn = 3yrs before a calf. I am very limited on field space, but shoot, $350? For winter hay, I say bred her back and move on. Next year you have a known good momma with a new calf. Am I missing something?

With the current feeder prices I am looking for reasons to cull cows. We manage a two strikes and you are out team:
1) No calf
2) Tore up the pen

If calves were $2.50 per lb. and hay was cheap - - then I would be tempted to retain her. But, with current prices she is a major money loser. Time to move on.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Shes not my best cow. But really been trouble free up til this. I realize it wasnt her fault.
She dont act stupid in the pen as long as there is another cow or 2. The other thing is, she saw me load her calf and take it out that way. And I know she knew her calf wasnt right. Shes been going back to the barn all day mooing like crazy. I did not put it down in front of her tho!
It really is a toss up to me.
I could stand to sell 1 or 2 cows. Or not.
The problem as said earlier, is that if I raise a replacement its 3 years out for a calf. If I buy something, who knows what I'll get right?

Probly got about 50 pounds of veal out of this mess. And while it's not cheap if bought, it's not what he would have brought in the fall. And I'd rather have 50 or 100 pounds of ribeyes and t bones instead of veal. Redneck butchered veal at that! Sheesh.

I'm still thinking.

Let ya know how the veal goes down after a while. Gonna grill a bite or 2.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

The opportunity for profit on the cow is gone. The opportunity to make a decision
that would enhance the value of the operation is still within your grasp. Put whatever
she brings at market to good use. a new gate in a strategic place, a better hay feeder,
grass seed and fertilizer on your best pastuer, a few more shekels for a bull that
would reflect on the direction you want to take your herd. In other words,
make lemonade!

 

[kenny thomas]

If you have grass and can keep her until fall to sell as a bred cow will she make enough profit to be worth holding. I have bought a few young cows that have lost calves lately with intentions of selling them as bred before winter.

 

[TCRanch]

I've kept back cows that lost their calves through no fault of their own. But I wasn't in a position where I needed to cull and they had always been great mamas, raised nice calves, docile, etc. The drawback if you don't graft another calf is the cow tends to get fat.

 

[gcreekrch]

Did you keep the hide from her calf? We have grafted by tying hide on graft and tying graft down where you found the dead calf. After mom has had 15 or so minutes to lick and mother you let the graft go and hope for the best. If she doesn't mother it while down she has made your decision easier.
Maybe just my opinion but you must be pretty hungry to eat the one that died. I couldn't stomach that.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Did you keep the hide from her calf? We have grafted by tying hide on graft and tying graft down where you found the dead calf. After mom has had 15 or so minutes to lick and mother you let the graft go and hope for the best. If she doesn't mother it while down she has made your decision easier.
Maybe just my opinion but you must be pretty hungry to eat the one that died. I couldn't stomach that.

He was alive. Just injured from being stepped on.
RUBBER. I was expecting filet texture.
Made the decision to scrap that idea. Dog food it is.

I did save the hide.
My original plan was to graft my black bottle heifer.
Gave up on that plan too!

Thanks everyone.
I'm still mulling it over

 

[melissa39183]

So I lost a calf. Cows and calves have been hanging out in the barn. One calf managed to get stepped on. I saw him down there by himself, and thought it was odd, so went to check on him. Had to put him down. Upon butchering said calf, we found a large area on his right side that has clotted up pretty bad. Calf was 6 weeks old. Made some roasts and whole filet and strips. (Tiny of coarse)
Anyway...

I skinned him and penned mama. Was going to graft a bottle calf I have. Shes never been penned up really. This is her 2nd calf. Raised a good one last year and this one wouldve been a better one. She tore the pen up. I dont have a great pen. Basically just a bunch of panels made into a round pen. Good enough for reasonable cows. Lol

I don't think I want to fight her. I could possibly load her up and take to a friends with a better pen and try to graft. But that's a good amount of work on a tight schedule this time of year.

Anyways.. should I give her another chance?
Pretty mad about it right now and I figure I better think on it.

If she's that bad in the pen I'd sell her. We've had too many close calls with high strung cows when you pen them.

 

[Baustin]

my opinion is worth about 2 cents. But here it is.
if the calf had not been stepped on would you be culling momma? Not her fault for that loss, I'd say.
You're thinking penning her alone was the cause of misbehavior. Again, not her fault.
i think "2 strikes you're out" applies when the cow's directly responsible somehow, like not being a timely calver, having to pull her calves, poor genetics, etc.
sounds like a bad season for an otherwise good cow. Culling and replacing won't bring back your loss. Might incur more.
seems she's worth another try unless you'd prefer a barn sale cow over her but sounds more risky to me.

 

[Jafruech]

Shes not my best cow. But really been trouble free up til this. I realize it wasnt her fault.
She dont act stupid in the pen as long as there is another cow or 2. The other thing is, she saw me load her calf and take it out that way. And I know she knew her calf wasnt right. Shes been going back to the barn all day mooing like crazy. I did not put it down in front of her tho!
It really is a toss up to me.
I could stand to sell 1 or 2 cows. Or not.
The problem as said earlier, is that if I raise a replacement its 3 years out for a calf. If I buy something, who knows what I'll get right?

Probly got about 50 pounds of veal out of this mess. And while it's not cheap if bought, it's not what he would have brought in the fall. And I'd rather have 50 or 100 pounds of ribeyes and t bones instead of veal. Redneck butchered veal at that! Sheesh.

I'm still thinking.

Let ya know how the veal goes down after a while. Gonna grill a bite or 2.

View attachment 4555

She would be a cull for me without hesitation, even if she had a live calf with her. Disposition is #1 on my list. What you are describing with her having to have other cows in with her to be calm is a disposition level that would be unacceptable for any cow or bull in my herd. Not traits I want to keep and pass on in the herd.

 

[Jafruech]

my opinion is worth about 2 cents. But here it is.
if the calf had not been stepped on would you be culling momma? Not her fault for that loss, I'd say.
You're thinking penning her alone was the cause of misbehavior. Again, not her fault.
i think "2 strikes you're out" applies when the cow's directly responsible somehow, like not being a timely calver, having to pull her calves, poor genetics, etc.
sounds like a bad season for an otherwise good cow. Culling and replacing won't bring back your loss. Might incur more.
seems she's worth another try unless you'd prefer a barn sale cow over her but sounds more risky to me.

Bad disposition is absolutely the cows fault. Not being able to be penned alone is a telltale sign of poor disposition. Bad disposition=bad cow IMO. Thinking otherwise is how people get hurt

 

[Brute 23]

Bad disposition is absolutely the cows fault. Not being able to be penned alone is a telltale sign of poor disposition. Bad disposition=bad cow IMO. Thinking otherwise is how people get hurt

Naw, its not. Its widely accepted that singling out herd animals is asking for trouble. Especially when their young are involved.

You may choose to operate differently and that's ok, but you are going against their natural instincts, which comes with it's own problems.

In many operations, such as ours, I'd really question her mothering ability if she had just stayed in that pen and not thrown a fit.

I had to get a dead calf from a momma a year ago. It was heart breaking. She was trying to nudge it and she has wore the ground to the dirt. She was skinny and probably about the give out from fighting off buzzards but she dis not leave that calf. It took some trickery to get the calf away from her. She was going to stay by that dead calf if it killed her.

That's the kind of cows that earns their keep here.