Just looking at his "phenotype"

[Kingfisher]

Just wondering if you had some cows and you seen a good looking Bull that the fellow said he would fit your program and was a good type for your cows would you buy him if he looked good to you? Would you even factor his genotype if you had nothing to trust but your gut and the sellers word ?

 

[inyati13]

I speak for me, not advising you: The genotype/pedigree would be essential to me.

 

[Nesikep]

I'd like to see his dam and sire, in person preferably... and the more the person can tell me about the history of the herd in general, the more inclined I'd be to trust him on it..

 

[Son of Butch]

Just wondering.... if you saw a good looking Bull that the fellow said he would fit your program and was a good type for your cows would you buy him? Would you even factor his genotype if you had nothing to trust but your gut and the sellers word ?

IF the price is right... Yes, it's done all the time.
Of course the more information the better, but Yes I am willing to rely on my own experience and judgment to pull
the trigger when I see what I judge to be a good one at the right price.
Good genotype to boot will increase what I'm willing to pay and still consider it a good buy.

 

[inyati13]

Just wondering if you had some cows and you seen a good looking Bull that the fellow said he would fit your program and was a good type for your cows would you buy him if he looked good to you? Would you even factor his genotype if you had nothing to trust but your gut and the sellers word ?

My goals have changed. 6 years ago, I put 4 cows on 80 acres to provide some tax relief for land improvements. The herd grew as my interest grew. Currently, all but one of my cows is register Simmental or Simangus. I do not use a bull- all AI. I have a personal interest in genetics and it has flowed over into breeding. My goal now is experimenting with seedstock. Therefore, the genotype is essential to achieve my goals. I will stock from 16 to 18 cows/heifers on 80 acres. Currently, I am under the stocking rate for my farm. I want to be able to get through the dry summer that comes along without selling my genetics.

 

[Ky hills]

That used to be about the only way we bought bulls. Sometimes there would be a recognizable name in the pedigree, usually a generation or two back. Now with AI being more prominent, the use of more proven sires along with EPD's, pedigree is very important to me at this point. I have been having my bulls DNA tested, and getting genomic enhanced EPD's, not sure it's worth a lot more as far as adding to credentials but it is at least another tool for selection.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

If it doesn't look like a bull you would want to own, and his dam doesn't look like a cow you want in the front pasture.
No Sale...

 

[Ebenezer]

This phenotype sale is pretty common on repeat buyers. They ask me if he is kin to the last bull and if he is about the same. If you raise regional type cattle or use lines there is a good chance that many have never heard of the families and the names anyway. One friend has already sold one bull for me via having his cattle near the road at times and had two more fellows interested. It is a combination of his word, experience and the calves. That is a great advantage of focusing on local needs and filling them.

 

[Kingfisher]

I speak for me, not advising you: The genotype/pedigree would be essential to me.

Thanks for your response. Have you ever considered buying the "orphan" in your circle and turning a good genotype with poor phenotype into a winner?

 

[Nesikep]

Brings up EPD's once again... A ranch can raise good (PB, registered) bulls and since they mostly sell to commercial guys (like me) who don't report BW's etc on a given bull, their EPD accuracies are next to useless.. Works good for the big guys who all pat each other on the back and use the bull of the month, all selling to each other where they all report the stats.

Looking at the bull I kept (the rideable one) 2 years ago and his first calves, I sure can't say he's inferior to the PB limo... The speckled calf from the first timer is growing great, and has LOTS of butt... and 3 daughters I have from him so far all look pretty good (all are fairly linebred).. I'm waiting on an older cow (much less related to) he bred to calf and see how that looks, she's made a lot of exceptional calves.

 

[creekdrive]

This phenotype sale is pretty common on repeat buyers. They ask me if he is kin to the last bull and if he is about the same. If you raise regional type cattle or use lines there is a good chance that many have never heard of the families and the names anyway. One friend has already sold one bull for me via having his cattle near the road at times and had two more fellows interested. It is a combination of his word, experience and the calves. That is a great advantage of focusing on local needs and filling them.

Could not agree more with this! Well over half of our bulls sell to repeat buyers or friends/neighbours of repeat buyers. Most of them could care less about pedigree, the names mean nothing to them anyway. Same with EPD's. Some will ask about the sire or dam. The dams and sires are all close by, but not many care to even see them. The repeat guys will occasionally want one bred similar to the last one they got, or they might want to try a different sire line. The way I see it is if they are sending their friends/neighbours to us after using one of our bulls we must be doing something right. Always a good feeling to hear from a customer that the bull they got worked out good for him.

The other thing that is always interesting to me is that what one guy thinks is the ugliest bull in the pen, the next guy picks him as his favorite. People definitely do not always see things the same way...

 

[Dave]

The bull I bought last year and the one I will pickup on Wednesday have been bought sight unseen with no idea of the pedigree. But I have been buying bulls from this guy for almost 20 years. I know his cattle. I know the kind of records he keeps. And I know that out of 400 cows he only keeps 24 bulls. The rest get cut and he retains ownership through the feedlot. His cattle have to preform for him and he only holds back the top end as bulls. In the past I have been one of the first people to pick through the bulls. The worse bull in the pen is a pretty nice bull.

 

[Nesikep]

I've only kept a few of my bulls intact, one I sold to a friend, and he's really happy with him, there's a chance I trade bulls with him at some point, not sure on which one yet, but I wouldn't mind the one he has for my older cows.. he's not a low-bw bull, but his calves have been born with no trouble, and they had surprising uniformity from a bunch of Heinz57 cows.. His full sister is one of my best cows too. No fancy pedigree (Sire is my avatar pic), but WYSIWYG.. what you see is what you get.