Irish Blacks

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BIZIN

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Wondering if anyone has bought any of these Irish Black bulls, and how they have worked out? Been talking to Doc Harris for a few years, but havent gotten down to see them yet. Wondering how they worked out for folks.
 

3waycross

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I came real close last year to buying some. The problem for me was PRICE. You can buy the BEST animals of almost any purebred breed out there for less money than they want for their entry level cattle.

Don't get me wrong they are VERY good looking cattle, but I ended up with very close to the same amount of muscle and probably better dispositions for a LOT less money.

The best price I found anywhere for heifers(long bred) was $2500 and that was a fire sale. The problem is the market in general does not recognize the value they place on those bulls. I am not saying they are not worth it just that you will have to become a very successful marketing firm in order to get the money you should have for your seedstock.

Also as much as I admire Maurice Bonney for what he has developed there, the covenants he places on them are so restrictive that you are pretty hogtied. He is the last and only source for registrations. They do not have an independent breed ASSN.

PM me an email address and I will send you some pics I took while I was there. You will see that I like the Reds a little better than the blacks.
 

Northern Rancher

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The best way to launch a new breed oir bull in my opinion if you are truly a believer in their acceptability is to price your genetics so they can be used by a large number of producers. Sky high prices to get into something is 'milking the cow dry before she kicks'. I checked them out also but like you I found the prices a bit steamy. I can get as good a return on investmment using genetics that are proven to work in my situation. You can still struggle along raising the industry standard black baldie and get by fine.
 
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BIZIN

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I was just looking at getting some bulls. What kinda price is he asking on the bulls. Trying to get ahold of him is beginning to be difficult and he has said that he wont let cattle into Canada unless I can convince him. The Welsh Blacks we have are doing a good job throwing BBF replacements, but I got interested in these Irish Blacks and wonder what kind of replacements they would throw on horned hereford cows.

3waycross... what kind of cattle did you end up going with instead?
 

3waycross

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BIZIN":foh9wd0v said:
I was just looking at getting some bulls. What kinda price is he asking on the bulls. Trying to get ahold of him is beginning to be difficult and he has said that he wont let cattle into Canada unless I can convince him. The Welsh Blacks we have are doing a good job throwing BBF replacements, but I got interested in these Irish Blacks and wonder what kind of replacements they would throw on horned hereford cows.

3waycross... what kind of cattle did you end up going with instead?

Last I heard it was $3000,for entry level bulls and more for the real nice ones. I ended up with Gelbvieh's instead and do not regret it a bit..

Northern Rancher is right, and I really respect his opinion. Get cattle like the welsh blacks or others that work up there. Heck go on over to AB and buy that nice Red bull calf that Hilsdown posted a while back. She is doing some real good things with Gelbvieh genetics up there. I wouldn't kiss anyone's a$$ to import an overpriced bull into Canada when there's some great cattle there already.
 
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BIZIN

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We have Welsh Blacks now and they are working, but always wondering how to improve. We breed our BBF cows to Black Gelbvieh bulls and we have about 20 that we couldnt sell with the rest of the replacements over the last few years and they are good cows. Always raise some good calves.
 

Aero

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Northern Rancher":2tlfj185 said:
The best way to launch a new breed oir bull in my opinion if you are truly a believer in their acceptability is to price your genetics so they can be used by a large number of producers. Sky high prices to get into something is 'milking the cow dry before she kicks'. I checked them out also but like you I found the prices a bit steamy. I can get as good a return on investmment using genetics that are proven to work in my situation. You can still struggle along raising the industry standard black baldie and get by fine.

he sells all of his bulls every year... 200 or so of them...

try to buy a 3-in-1... we got into 5 figures very quickly per cow
 

Jovid

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Aero":gtdqbke3 said:
Northern Rancher":gtdqbke3 said:
The best way to launch a new breed oir bull in my opinion if you are truly a believer in their acceptability is to price your genetics so they can be used by a large number of producers. Sky high prices to get into something is 'milking the cow dry before she kicks'. I checked them out also but like you I found the prices a bit steamy. I can get as good a return on investmment using genetics that are proven to work in my situation. You can still struggle along raising the industry standard black baldie and get by fine.

he sells all of his bulls every year... 200 or so of them...

try to buy a 3-in-1... we got into 5 figures very quickly per cow

I'm sure he sells them somewhere.......private treaty, neighbor, sale barn, locker plant.....
 

Frankie

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3waycross":1iq2urr6 said:
Also as much as I admire Maurice Bonney for what he has developed there, the covenants he places on them are so restrictive that you are pretty hogtied. He is the last and only source for registrations. They do not have an independent breed ASSN.

That's the only way he can maintain contol over the quality of the breed....and continue to be the major source of supply. And keep the price high.
 

3waycross

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Frankie":2eg0lbfz said:
3waycross":2eg0lbfz said:
Also as much as I admire Maurice Bonney for what he has developed there, the covenants he places on them are so restrictive that you are pretty hogtied. He is the last and only source for registrations. They do not have an independent breed ASSN.

That's the only way he can maintain contol over the quality of the breed....and continue to be the major source of supply. And keep the price high.

Frankie I agree, the problem is the part about being THE only source. Nobody can really do much of a job with seedstock with them unless you want to spend a fortune on advertising.

They really are good cattle but that part of it turned me off pretty bad. The control is total.

The other thing is there are no EPD's. You can be pretty far into a bull before you find out he is not so good for calving ease.
 

Northern Rancher

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One of the reasons the angus breed grew so fast so quickly is the fact you could use the top end bulls of the breed at commercial prices through A'I. If you are confident in your genetics make them available to the masses. seen alot of wonder breeds come and go over the years-i've got 40 some years of cattle publications in my archives-any one remember Jim leachman as a Chianina breeder lol.
 

Frankie

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Northern Rancher":2dzod7qq said:
One of the reasons the angus breed grew so fast so quickly is the fact you could use the top end bulls of the breed at commercial prices through A'I. If you are confident in your genetics make them available to the masses. seen alot of wonder breeds come and go over the years-i've got 40 some years of cattle publications in my archives-any one remember Jim leachman as a Chianina breeder lol.

I think it's a major strength of the Angus breed that you can buy bulls at very reasonable prices from many breeders. No, they're not all good bulls. But with all the choices out there, it's probably the buyers' fault if they don't get a good one.

I remember describing how satisfied we were with a particular Angus bull to a co-worker several years ago. His response was something like "get all the semen and don't let anybody else use him." In the Angus world, that's not how it works. You need to get him used. No, I don't remember Leachman as a Chi breeder, but who would be surprised? He probably raised some good ones, too. :lol:
 

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Frankie":3h6i594k said:
3waycross":3h6i594k said:
Also as much as I admire Maurice Bonney for what he has developed there, the covenants he places on them are so restrictive that you are pretty hogtied. He is the last and only source for registrations. They do not have an independent breed ASSN.

That's the only way he can maintain contol over the quality of the breed....and continue to be the major source of supply. And keep the price high.

that's not exactly right. he is willing to sell registered Irish Black bulls and cows that you can then register calves from, but you cant use any percentage males for breeding. the contract requires them (percentage males) to be castrated.
 

3waycross

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Aero":2yzwpfqw said:
Frankie":2yzwpfqw said:
3waycross":2yzwpfqw said:
Also as much as I admire Maurice Bonney for what he has developed there, the covenants he places on them are so restrictive that you are pretty hogtied. He is the last and only source for registrations. They do not have an independent breed ASSN.

That's the only way he can maintain contol over the quality of the breed....and continue to be the major source of supply. And keep the price high.

that's not exactly right. he is willing to sell registered Irish Black bulls and cows that you can then register calves from, but you cant use any percentage males for breeding. the contract requires them (percentage males) to be castrated.

What's not exactly right. Is he or is he not the first and last word on registrations. BTW who ever heard of someone being able to tell a man he has to castrate his calves unless he wants to. That's exactly what I and Frankie was talking about. They charge out the wazoo and then tell you what to do with the cattle after you own them. I have a question for you re. castration what's he gonns do if he finds out you are breeding from a 1/2 blood bull come over and cut him for you?
 

Frankie

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Aero":3dyyiwyp said:
that's not exactly right. he is willing to sell registered Irish Black bulls and cows that you can then register calves from, but you cant use any percentage males for breeding. the contract requires them (percentage males) to be castrated.

Where, exactly, am I wrong in this statement?:

That's the only way he can maintain contol over the quality of the breed....and continue to be the major source of supply. And keep the price high.

I'm not complaining about the requirements put on Irish Black buyers. I understand that they're trying to keep the breed as is. If potential customers don't want to sign the agreement, there are lots and lots of Angus bulls available at more reasonable prices. :D
 
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BIZIN

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The more I'm hearing, the more I'm thinking to stick with my Welsh Black bulls and to H E double hockey sticks with the Irish Blacks!
 

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