I'm Racist ?????????

[backhoeboogie]

Need a constitutional amendment Congress can not borrow they must live within the budget except in the event pf a declared war.
Talk about disappearing government agencies.
Wouldn't even need the IRS.

They would declare war left and right. Spending is completely out of control. Don't get me wrong, if American children or the elderly need to eat, they can have more. But that is not where all the money goes. Way to many abled bodied dead beats.

 

[Hook]

I have a real problem with taxing items multiple times.

Well you better quit buying gas, alcohol and tobacco and dang near everything else.
When you buy a gallon of gas the well was taxed, the port was taxed or pipeline if foreign crude it pays a tariff.
The refinery is taxed the tank farm the gas station and you pay an additional tax to just purchase it.
Alcohol and tobacco are as bad or worse.
What Joe American has yet to realize is corporations don't pay taxes they collect them from us to pay
Uncle Sam. The government loves the current system the public is always mad at the corporation not
who is taxing us to death
This is a mess that has been created worse than an explosion in a steel wool factory.
The simplest solution is a sales tax just got remember no matter the rate it is all passed to us.
Need a constitutional amendment Congress can not borrow they must live within the budget except in the event pf a declared war.
Talk about disappearing government agencies.
Wouldn't even need the IRS.

Exactly. Taxing items multiple times as it changes hands. Doesn't matter if it's a plate, gas, a commodity, real estate, etc. The tax was paid the first time it was purchased, why keep taxing it over and over? I can tell you why but it'll be preaching to the choir here.

 

[john250]

I don't favor a sales tax for total tax collections. The federal would be near 10%, on top of all the existing state and city sales taxes. Buy a car or truck. Make your best deal with the dealer, and then add 20%. I think it would crash the economy.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't favor a sales tax for total tax collections. The federal would be near 10%, on top of all the existing state and city sales taxes. Buy a car or truck. Make your best deal with the dealer, and then add 20%. I think it would crash the economy.

John you are paying more than that now put a pencil to it.
By the time you pay city if applicable county,state, school, federal it is over that.
It would drop fuel tax here from 38 cents a gallon to 16.25 alone

Boogie I agree they have kept us i some kind of war most of my life now.
They have to stay in the budget and if they need to raise capital sell war bonds like WWII.
Need to stop most if not all foreign aide as well pay down the debt and put the money
back into the SS fund it was stole from to finance the Great society.

 

[chrisy]

If you don't have National Debt you won't have an economy. As it is the interest of the dept from the money you loan to others that you get your money, and if you came out of dept no-one would trade with you and the Country would completely collapse. as your money would be worthless. The more money you owe the better your economy and the richer you become, seems weird but that is the way it is. If you owe nothing and need a loan you will find it hard to get, if you owe loads of $ then the more they seem to loan you, as long as you are paying back as they ask, because they know you can pay, no money owing then how do they know you are good for it.

 

[Ouachita]

Chrisy I really like you, always have and always will. I wish I could find a copy of a interesting read on how the concept of banking began. Interesting read. I agree a good relationship with a money peddler is a good thing and you need a history of paying your debt, and need to have had debt to do so. However when you or a nation borrow money from another nation to re-distribute to a third party nation, something is amiss, by design.

 

[inyati13]

If you don't have National Debt you won't have an economy. As it is the interest of the dept from the money you loan to others that you get your money, and if you came out of dept no-one would trade with you and the Country would completely collapse. as your money would be worthless. The more money you owe the better your economy and the richer you become, seems weird but that is the way it is. If you owe nothing and need a loan you will find it hard to get, if you owe loads of $ then the more they seem to loan you, as long as you are paying back as they ask, because they know you can pay, no money owing then how do they know you are good for it.

The concept of debt offers benefits as you mention but in the case of the US National Debt and the obligations the US is servicing, there are detrimental characteristics at play in the specific example of this nation. In order to service its debt which is becoming an ever increasing percentage of the US Budget and to fund its massive social obligations, the US federal reserve through the US reserve banking institutions is increasing the money supply. The US meets its obligations not from "interest" but primarily in the treasury auctions. In the case of the US, "interest" on the treasury bonds is an obligation to foreign and domestic holders of treasury bonds. The federal reserve is "printing" money and like anything, as the money supply goes up the value of the currency goes down. (In reality money is no longer printed it is tracked electronically from nation to nation). This inflation is killing poor people where I live. Families cannot afford the inflated prices of essentials and many are going without. It is too rudimentary to characterize the US debt as you did in your statement above. I realize you may not have meant it for the US but that is what Ouachita and others are talking about. The concept of barrowing is more complex and its consequences is another matter as it relates to the US.

 

[chrisy]

inyati, I understand what you are saying I was only trying to point out briefly what happens, I know both the US and the UK are far to over stretched, and we like you have a very poor economy at the moment prices are far to high, some of ours i.e. petrol and diesel being much more. Gas, Electricity and water bills are sky rocketing and soon people won't be able to do the most menial things like eat, as prices have gone to high. Printing money is not the answer, look at Germany after the war their economy was so bad people were carrying suit cases of money around just to have enough to pay for things, hopefully we won't get like that. Not sure about the US but UK is sinking fast, even though they say that the economy is picking up, is it to little to late? I agree that we need to cut the help that we lend, but we can't cut it altogether. As the world wide economy would go into a bigger tail spin. The UK used to be a big fish in the pond for such a small Island then the US following not far behind, but now we are fast becoming a Third World Country as we are nearly bankrupt, although they would never tell you that, not sure when the US became the richest but looks like your being taken down the gurgler to. R.I.P two great Nations, not the ones our Fathers and Grandfathers fought two Wars for.

 

[inyati13]

inyati, I understand what you are saying I was only trying to point out briefly what happens, I know both the US and the UK are far to over stretched, and we like you have a very poor economy at the moment prices are far to high, some of ours i.e. petrol and diesel being much more. Gas, Electricity and water bills are sky rocketing and soon people won't be able to do the most menial things like eat, as prices have gone to high. Printing money is not the answer, look at Germany after the war their economy was so bad people were carrying suit cases of money around just to have enough to pay for things, hopefully we won't get like that. Not sure about the US but UK is sinking fast, even though they say that the economy is picking up, is it to little to late? I agree that we need to cut the help that we lend, but we can't cut it altogether. As the world wide economy would go into a bigger tail spin. The UK used to be a big fish in the pond for such a small Island then the US following not far behind, but now we are fast becoming a Third World Country as we are nearly bankrupt, although they would never tell you that, not sure when the US became the richest but looks like your being taken down the gurgler to. R.I.P two great Nations, not the ones our Fathers and Grandfathers fought two Wars for.

I agree with you. I think our nations may have gotten the hole dug so deep that to get out now is going to colapse the dirt down on us.

 

[inyati13]

chrisy,
I am a fiscal conservative but I stand on the left in regard to some social issues so I am not wanting to throw too many rocks since I admit I live in a glass house but I wish my friends on the left would realize that they (Democrats/liberals) are "killing" poor people.

What help are you giving someone, if you provide them $1,000 in social help but take $2,000 from them via inflation????

 

[TexasBred]

Exactly. Taxing items multiple times as it changes hands. Doesn't matter if it's a plate, gas, a commodity, real estate, etc. The tax was paid the first time it was purchased, why keep taxing it over and over? I can tell you why but it'll be preaching to the choir here.

Hook you may not like it but things are already taxes multiple times and always has been. It's the same with income and deductions on FIT. For every deduction there is someone who is "suppose" to be reporting the same amount in their income.

 

[TexasBred]

If you don't have National Debt you won't have an economy. As it is the interest of the dept from the money you loan to others that you get your money, and if you came out of dept no-one would trade with you and the Country would completely collapse. as your money would be worthless. The more money you owe the better your economy and the richer you become, seems weird but that is the way it is. If you owe nothing and need a loan you will find it hard to get, if you owe loads of $ then the more they seem to loan you, as long as you are paying back as they ask, because they know you can pay, no money owing then how do they know you are good for it.

Chrisy there is a huge difference in owing a lot of money and having good credit. I can have good credit and not owe a penny. As a borrower, our country is not collecting interest. We are paying interest even though that interest is at an all time low. Don't see why anyone would buy our Gov't notes with almost no return unless they are deeply discounted regardless of our "credit rating". Credit rating is a reflection of past performance. It has nothing to do with your ability to repay a much larger amount of borrowed money.

 

[chrisy]

Texasbred it was an economist that tried to explain in layman's terms why we need a National Debt. Yes you can have a good credit rating without debt but it is harder to get things without one, when your a Country it's not like us mere menials. Credit rating is on past performance and you don't have a past performance without owing something somewhere, you may think your Country isn't getting paid but I bet they are, England pays them enough, as does the US pay England. It's not like 'well you owe me $20 and you owe me £20 so we're quits', It is to do with the GDP and the US has the highest PPP in the World, and is only second to China in trading. So the US has a long way to go before it collapses. It isn't fair that the little man has to suffer, but that is the way all over the World, even we have it bad at the bottom and we are a National Welfare State, our resources through it are being drained, and it is finally strangling us, not sure sometimes if it is a good idea to have the NHS and all the handouts we have. but not going into that one as that is another issue altogether.

 

[IABeef]

highest PPP?

Now that makes me proud!

 

[gimpyrancher]

Hey Caustic,

Come on, you need to add a smily face when you say such things.

> HC I think they should do it like Texas a flat sales tax. If you don't spend your money your not taxed.

Spend it on what? Across the board or do the rich have exemptions on the rule? How about donations to charities? Isn't that buying tax breaks on your federal income taxes? Sorry, hate to ruin a good joke.

> Your taxed based on what you spend not what make.

How about those cattle you buy and sell? How about the feed and hey you buy and sell? How about the stocks and bonds you buy and sell? How about the political figures you buy and sell? What about the water you buy? Do you get a cheap rate or do you pay what every homeowner and business pays along with the taxes?

> Every dollar spent in Texas to buy a product is taxed at 6.25% we don't have an income tax.

I'm betting the farm this is not anymore honest than the rest of what you stay. I'll bet there are many things that are exempt from those taxes or are applied at a much lower cost ratio. Jim Crow laws and special exemptions for the rich are the same thing with different titles.

 

[gimpyrancher]

Hey Caustic,

One more question?

Do you sport one of those signs saying "Farmers feed America?" Why not add another sign that would be a little more honest? Farmers Feed America with the help of a thousand other businesses and millions of individual workers? Try to do your work without the oil industry. Or any other consumer product (mostly foreign made because we've shipped industry overseas) you need to do your job. Who built the tractors and other exempt vehicles you use? Where was your phone built and where was your computer made?

In the old days, we remembered that we are not in this alone.

 

[Hook]

Hey Gimpy...I'm still waiting to hear what "rich" is in your book??? More than you have??? What your neighbor has? What???

:nod: rich is all about perspective.

 

[TexasBred]

Hey Gimpy...I'm still waiting to hear what "rich" is in your book??? More than you have??? What your neighbor has? What???

D&C getting a liberal democrat to define "rich" is harder than trying to get them to define "Fair Share". They can't !!! They just want you and me to pay more and figure everybody that makes a nickel more than them is screwing somebody somewhere and getting preferential treatment.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hey Caustic,

One more question?

Do you sport one of those signs saying "Farmers feed America?" Why not add another sign that would be a little more honest? Farmers Feed America with the help of a thousand other businesses and millions of individual workers? Try to do your work without the oil industry. Or any other consumer product (mostly foreign made because we've shipped industry overseas) you need to do your job. Who built the tractors and other exempt vehicles you use? Where was your phone built and where was your computer made?

In the old days, we remembered that we are not in this alone.

The reason most of everything has gone overseas is regulation and taxes.
Something had to pay for the slaves it was our industry.
The question could probably be answered by Nancy better than anyone.
I wonder who picks her vineyards as well as what kind of labor does she use.
The Blue party has slid so far to the left they have passed socialism headed for the hammer and sickle.
A democrat of my youth would be considered a far right Republican today.
I will pose a question when was the country and dollar stronger under more conservative principles 50 years ago or the liberal principles of today.
Our downhill slide occurred under LBJ's Great Society and has been falling like a turd in a well.
Just look how much our inter cities have improved and how cities like have grown with the socialism march like Detroit.
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
Ben Franklin"

There is not an American made tractor any longer.
The list goes on and on the blue party has destroyed American's industrial power.
They have used Gestapo like tactic's and march in lock step it is called the EPA.
Never in my life time did I think would see a President of any party stop Americans from getting good paying jobs.
But this one sure has.
All part of the agenda to enslave

And thus the journey as Mr Franklin predicted.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
And we have arrived.

 

[gimpyrancher]

Hey Caustic,

Like they say about pornography, I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it. Wasn't that the conservative definition of the time? Why change now? I'm not complaining about the guy living high off his labor. I'm speaking of the guy that lives off all the special benefits not available to everyone. It used to be that even being in the middle class was considered living a rich life. Only because they could afford a family, a home and food to feed themselves.

> The reason most of everything has gone overseas is regulation and taxes.

Regulations and taxes that were passed by the ultra rich. The poor don't have access to the policy makers.

> The Blue party has slid so far to the left they have passed socialism headed for the hammer and sickle.

Again, the rich altering the country's founding fathers.

> A democrat of my youth would be considered a far right Republican today.

There is nothing about either party that would be recognizable 100 years ago. Neither party represents the majority of Americans anymore.

> I will pose a question when was the country and dollar stronger under more conservative principles 50 years ago or the liberal principles of today.

Forget 50 years. Just ask that question since Reagan.

> Just look how much our inter cities have improved and how cities like have grown with the socialism march like Detroit.

Cheaper to send the jobs overseas for cheap laborer to benefit other countries. Ask a better question for clarification. Are "American Corporations" financially better off now or when they made things in America with far more local competition? Now they want to bring in their overseas billions without paying taxes or telling us where that money came from. Yet the individual is required to pay U.S. taxes on "world wide income" if we leave the states.

> The list goes on and on the blue party has destroyed American's industrial power.

Which party owns more of the corporations? The destruction of American's industrial power wasn't distorted by the poorer party. It was destroyed by the rich passing laws and regulations that benefitted them over America. Well, that and owning the Supreme Court also helps.

> They have used Gestapo like tactic's and march in lock step it is called the EPA.

More accurately it is called the Tea Party. Again, it's not the poor that is polluting the water and air internationally. But I can see how you might disagree.

> Never in my life time did I think would see a President of any party stop Americans from getting good paying jobs.

That is funny. Where exactly are the jobs you claim someone is stopping us from accessing? I guess making up the facts is easier than researching the truth. The good paying jobs have been shipped out of the U.S. Partially because we have stopped educating our masses without cost. We've pared down our education so far that we learn only from books and not from hands on learning. What high schools still offer the classes we all were exposed to 50 years ago? Who is it that is profiting off the $100+ books required in colleges?

> All part of the agenda to enslave

And you really believe that the poor are enslaving the rich? I have to admit, that one surprised me.

> And thus the journey as Mr Franklin predicted.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
And we have arrived.

I hate to use facts and history to confuse you. But name a country that is "corrupt and vicious" that isn't run by the "masters" you seem to love? Virtue does not have anything to do with those that run this country anymore.