if this was your pasture
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Kell-inKY
Well-known member
I can only tell you what I've done on our 61 acres.
Pasture had been over grazed by horses, then empty and run down for years, had exactly what you are talking about. Lots of locust groves, both black and honey, red cedars of every size, huge groves of blackberries and weeds everywhere. Blackberries where well over my head sitting on a tractor, and locust were generally 12-15' tall. You say you have like 100 trees? I had them in the thousands. Plus hundreds of downed and dead trees. I had a couple of old Ford tractors with no FEL, 6' bush hog, box blade, chainsaw, axe and a trailer to pile wood on to take to burn.
I bush hogged the blackberries not knowing any better, cut cedar and locust off at ground level with an axe or chainsaw (which wore out several chains). I don't bush hog trees unless they are a quarter inch in diameter or smaller. I mowed 3-4 times a year for the first 2 years. Blackberry tried to come up again, I mowed it, same with locust, locust is soft and easy to mow when it tries to come up again. I'm talking locust groves here, not 1 or 2. Most blackberry patches were maybe 30'x30' average and there were tons, just dirt after mowing because no light for grass to grow.
3rd year, hardly any blackberry or locust tried to come up (no spraying, NO stump treatment), they are well under control now but I do mow quite a bit, can't stand a weedy pasture. Still have plenty of weeds like ragweed but it's getting better. Bare spots have filled in with summer grasses and clover (did not plant one seed of clover, broadcasting fescue was useless) and rotate the cattle through when they get ready to move.
Wish I had before and after pictures. I have to say, if it takes 3 years for a chemical/mowing to kill blackberries, or it takes 3 years to kill them by mowing alone, I think the chemical company is getting rich off of you. I tried test spraying for broadleaf weeds one year on some small patches and I will never use chemical on my pasture again. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm not one of those nature nuts, but it's just not for me. I did not get everything done the first year, and still have sections I work on to this day (burned trees this week in fact, and last week, and the week before actually.....) It's great if you like manual labor and don't want to pay a gym membership.
Good Luck
Pasture had been over grazed by horses, then empty and run down for years, had exactly what you are talking about. Lots of locust groves, both black and honey, red cedars of every size, huge groves of blackberries and weeds everywhere. Blackberries where well over my head sitting on a tractor, and locust were generally 12-15' tall. You say you have like 100 trees? I had them in the thousands. Plus hundreds of downed and dead trees. I had a couple of old Ford tractors with no FEL, 6' bush hog, box blade, chainsaw, axe and a trailer to pile wood on to take to burn.
I bush hogged the blackberries not knowing any better, cut cedar and locust off at ground level with an axe or chainsaw (which wore out several chains). I don't bush hog trees unless they are a quarter inch in diameter or smaller. I mowed 3-4 times a year for the first 2 years. Blackberry tried to come up again, I mowed it, same with locust, locust is soft and easy to mow when it tries to come up again. I'm talking locust groves here, not 1 or 2. Most blackberry patches were maybe 30'x30' average and there were tons, just dirt after mowing because no light for grass to grow.
3rd year, hardly any blackberry or locust tried to come up (no spraying, NO stump treatment), they are well under control now but I do mow quite a bit, can't stand a weedy pasture. Still have plenty of weeds like ragweed but it's getting better. Bare spots have filled in with summer grasses and clover (did not plant one seed of clover, broadcasting fescue was useless) and rotate the cattle through when they get ready to move.
Wish I had before and after pictures. I have to say, if it takes 3 years for a chemical/mowing to kill blackberries, or it takes 3 years to kill them by mowing alone, I think the chemical company is getting rich off of you. I tried test spraying for broadleaf weeds one year on some small patches and I will never use chemical on my pasture again. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm not one of those nature nuts, but it's just not for me. I did not get everything done the first year, and still have sections I work on to this day (burned trees this week in fact, and last week, and the week before actually.....) It's great if you like manual labor and don't want to pay a gym membership.
Good Luck
I never said it takes 3 yrs. to kill them out 1 spraying is killing most of them then I go back and spot spray the ones I missed. A couple weeks ago we burned some of the patches that were sprayed an they look great, no green new vines. This place is almost 5 times the size of what you are talking about so I am doing it in sections. Before I bought it, it was brushed hogged every year, the man had a big batwing, and after about 2 years of not brush hogging it is over run with black berries. i am spraying and burning. Going to burn at least ever 2 yrs. that seems to be one of the best things you can do, I have a friend that burns every year several places and they all look great.Kell-inKY":kusmrvl9 said:
Kell-inKY
Well-known member
I didn't say you did, did not mean to offend you.BRYANT":3cn8b8p0 said:
I misread someone else's post linking to the 3 year spray test results, that is the 3 years I was referring to. I must admit I don't fully understand it because they were spraying the fields with 100% kill rate for 3 years? Seems like a better test would be to spray 1 year and then see the results the next 2 without spraying or mowing, this would give you a comparison to your land that was not brush hogged for 2 years. Are there viable seeds left in the ground after spraying? Is that the need to continually spray?
I also misstated myself, I mowed the first year, the next year I noticed them trying to come back somewhat (maybe 25% roughly), the year after that I hardly noticed any whatsoever, so technically 2 years of mowing with good results. My only point which I stated right off the bat was this was my own personal experience of not spraying and how blackberries etc. did not multiply ten fold and cause Armageddon.
By all means, spray away if you want. Mowing has been an effective alternative for me, and I have to mow anyway.
not offendedKell-inKY":2116psuw said:
but I do hate blackberries and cedars and to day I cut a bunch of pecans about 2'' around, they will take over also if you don't stay on them, its a battle all the time and takes time of which I don't have enough ofI read someplace the other day that ,that is one of the reasons they come back if so I wonder if burning after you spray or mow wound kill the seed ???Kell-inKY":2116psuw said:
Kell-inKY
The reason for multiple sprayings is the residual seed bank. Some of that stuff can lie for years before germinating. Don;t know how it decides it's time. The reaons cedar, blackberry and MFR sprout so well along fence rows is birds eating the seeds and depositing them with their own bit of fertilizer along the fences and frequently at posts. Some brushy type plants the more you clip them and disturb them the better they grow. Knock off the tops and the root structure grows. Rxcept for the fields that we spread chicken litter I haven;t sprayed in a long time. We also leave fence rows to grow up but I do try to remove the cedars, MFR and blackberries along them. Many places I just spray them and leave the dead brushy stuff.
The reason for multiple sprayings is the residual seed bank. Some of that stuff can lie for years before germinating. Don;t know how it decides it's time. The reaons cedar, blackberry and MFR sprout so well along fence rows is birds eating the seeds and depositing them with their own bit of fertilizer along the fences and frequently at posts. Some brushy type plants the more you clip them and disturb them the better they grow. Knock off the tops and the root structure grows. Rxcept for the fields that we spread chicken litter I haven;t sprayed in a long time. We also leave fence rows to grow up but I do try to remove the cedars, MFR and blackberries along them. Many places I just spray them and leave the dead brushy stuff.
farmerjan
Well-known member
Just to add a little bit of another opinion here. We do some spraying for blackberries and multiflora rose on rented pastures per the owners requirements. I personally hate to use chemicals and I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT ALLOW any animal in the pastures where the spraying is being done and probably for at least 2-3 weeks after. Lost some animals one time, they never did confirm it was/wasn't the spraying, but NEVER AGAIN. This is like Kell-inKY , personal experience/preference. In pastures that we don't have to satisfy a landowner's requirements, I personally do the bushhogging and it will keep the blackberries in check after the second year. Blackberry canes are a 2 year deal, first year is growth, second year is berries. While the second year canes are bearing fruit, there are more first year canes growing, to take the place of the second year canes that will die. Yes the root systems will grow....however, if you keep the tops mowed off so the root systems aren't being fed, the root systems will be weakened and die back. It doesn't take chemicals to kill them if you understand the growth patterns. Yes a bird can and will spread the seeds far and wide and that is why they will come up all along the fence rows especially.
Another thing that most people don't realize is to LIME the patches. Like DOUBLE WAY OVERDONE.. ....blackberries and most brambles like acidic soil....Make the soil less attractive to the things you want to get rid of. They suggest using pine needles on home patches of berries....for the slow release of the acidic properties as the needles breakdown. Lime to me is alot better than a chemical in the soil. The microbes in the soil will adjust and spread the lime throughout. Earthworms will avoid the heavily limed area at first, but it won't kill them like the chemicals will.
Another thing that most people don't realize is to LIME the patches. Like DOUBLE WAY OVERDONE.. ....blackberries and most brambles like acidic soil....Make the soil less attractive to the things you want to get rid of. They suggest using pine needles on home patches of berries....for the slow release of the acidic properties as the needles breakdown. Lime to me is alot better than a chemical in the soil. The microbes in the soil will adjust and spread the lime throughout. Earthworms will avoid the heavily limed area at first, but it won't kill them like the chemicals will.
pdubdo
Well-known member
Thanks for all the info!
Quick update: Dividing my workload into 10 acre sections. I sprayed diesel/remedy (20% Remedy) on the trees 2 weeks ago. 10 days later I'm seeing leaf wilt on 75% or so of the trees--I'm optimistic. My next round will be Remedy/water/dish soap mix on the blackberries & 2-3 foot plums (foliar spray). Not sure why I'll spend $80 on Remedy but I shy away from buying real surfactant...
Quick update: Dividing my workload into 10 acre sections. I sprayed diesel/remedy (20% Remedy) on the trees 2 weeks ago. 10 days later I'm seeing leaf wilt on 75% or so of the trees--I'm optimistic. My next round will be Remedy/water/dish soap mix on the blackberries & 2-3 foot plums (foliar spray). Not sure why I'll spend $80 on Remedy but I shy away from buying real surfactant...
