if this was your pasture

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pdubdo

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50 acres in southern Okla, flat, mostly native grasses that grow very well. But.. about 100 scattered 8-15 ft trees (pecans/oaks/small cedars/black locust-ugh!), several plum thickets (1-2 inch stems up to 6 ft high), a few blackberry patches that take over their areas by summer.
Resources: me working on this part time, a 40 hp tractor w/ FEL & 6 ft cutter, backpack sprayer, chainsaw,
My current plan is just keep moving section-by-section with a spraying-cutting pattern. This will stay a native-grasses pasture for cattle (not on pasture yet). Sometimes I wonder if I should just hire a real farmer to come in and spray-then- mow the whole thing. What would you do?
 

angus9259

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Depends how much money you got and what you enjoy.

You got money and hate clearing land? Easy decision.

Me, I'd clear it myself. I hate spending money more than I hate clearing land - but hate them both.
 

dun

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I would spray the whole thing with Surmount and leave it sit. Then next spring burn it. The biggest problem with abused/neglected pastures is you can;t reclaim them in one year. It took a long time for them to get that bad and it takes at least a couple of years to get them being back in shape.
 

HDRider

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dun":brcqjnko said:
I would spray the whole thing with Surmount and leave it sit. Then next spring burn it. The biggest problem with abused/neglected pastures is you can;t reclaim them in one year. It took a long time for them to get that bad and it takes at least a couple of years to get them being back in shape.
I can attest to that.

Dun,
Why Surmount?
http://www.dowagro.com/en-us/range/products/surmount
 

dun

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HDRider":3eqeugz6 said:
dun":3eqeugz6 said:
I would spray the whole thing with Surmount and leave it sit. Then next spring burn it. The biggest problem with abused/neglected pastures is you can;t reclaim them in one year. It took a long time for them to get that bad and it takes at least a couple of years to get them being back in shape.
I can attest to that.

Dun,
Why Surmount?
http://www.dowagro.com/en-us/range/products/surmount
I've had the best success with surmount on blackberrys. It works on the other stuff too but it's the only thing I've found that will just hammer blackberrys. Doesn;t even seem to matter much when you spray it as long as the plants are green and growing. Supposedly they all work best when the berrys are in bloom but with surmount I didn;t find it necessarry
 

buzzy

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put cows in to graze what they can
hit the blackberry patches with the cutter
chainsaw and stump treat the plum thickets and locust
depending on location I would keep most oaks pecan and cedar
we keep cedar groves in most pastures for winter wind breaks and spot spray weeds
 
OP
P

pdubdo

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thanks guys-I've been using Remedy last growing season with maybe 60-70% success. I'll check into Surmount. Also, appreciate the reminder that I can't get all this done in a few months (without throwing $$$ at it)-I lose track of that sometimes :)
 

BRYANT

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buzzy":3cam9mde said:
put cows in to graze what they can
hit the blackberry patches with the cutter
chainsaw and stump treat the plum thickets and locust
depending on location I would keep most oaks pecan and cedar
we keep cedar groves in most pastures for winter wind breaks and spot spray weeds

I don't want to start a big fight on here about this, but the worst thing you can do is mow/brush hog black berries. When you cut them they grow back and then you have a smaller plant on a big root system that is harder to kill with spray. If you want to hear that from a professional call Winfield chem. in OKC. There is sprays that will hammer blackberries, I have never used Surmount but may try it on some this year. As many of you all know I sprayed several acres back in Sept. and got a real good kill. Now I am dragging a drag over them to bust down all the dead ones, some patches were 10'+ tall and very thick, I am dragging them rather than cutting so any that I missed will stand back up and they will get spot sprayed here in a few days when they are in bloom. I think the best time to spray them is in fall right before the sap goes down.
As for leaving cedars, these Okla. red cedar, not many people will advise it but if I was going to I would only leave the male cedars cut ALL of the females down. I will say a big male cedar that has had the lower branches trimmed off just to the top of a cows back is a good fly repellent but they sure do use a lot of water. I have sheared several hundred cedars in the last few weeks with my skid loader and they spread really fast. As for me I wish I never seen another black berry vine or cedar they are on that list of things I hate right along side of Coyotes, Beavers, Horse Flies and Mexican Buzzards
good luck
 

BC

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You have been given some good advice by Dun and Bryant. Do not mow the blackberries, Makes them harder to kill because of less leaf surface to apply herbicide. Here is a link to a 3 year result demonstration that was done in a neighboring county. Surmount was by and far away the most effective herbicide for controlling. What I saw was little to no regrowth in following years. http://counties.agrilife.org/wood/files ... port_1.pdf
 

greybeard

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I agree with the "Do not mow" advise, and it applies to other perennial invasives (but not all) as well. It's like pruning a rose or grape vine back..it's done to encourage growth, both above and below the ground.
Cedar? They can be just as invasive as the blackberry, and as others said, suck up a LOT of water.
If you're going to go the cut stump treatment route on the small trees, spray the stumps immediately after cutting. If you spend all day cutting, then spray the next day, it doesn't work very well, especially during active growing--the stump tops have already been sealed off with sap by the time you spray them..no penetration of the herbicide down thru the cambium layer. I'll cut 1/2 dozen with the saw, put the saw down, pick up the backpack sprayer and coat the stump tops, then pick the saw back up and cut some more. rinse and repeat..
Remedy is good stuff, and I use a lot of it, but it isn't the end all-be all of herbicides. It doesn't work well on anything that has a shiny slick leaf. It needs to be mixed with a penetrant on that type foilage..like diesel.
(I haven't used Surmount so I can't comment on it, but have seen it recommended lots of times here at CT)
 

BRYANT

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greybeard":2vbn55tx said:
I agree with the "Do not mow" advise, and it applies to other perennial invasives (but not all) as well. It's like pruning a rose or grape vine back..it's done to encourage growth, both above and below the ground.
Cedar? They can be just as invasive as the blackberry, and as others said, suck up a LOT of water.
If you're going to go the cut stump treatment route on the small trees, spray the stumps immediately after cutting. If you spend all day cutting, then spray the next day, it doesn't work very well, especially during active growing--the stump tops have already been sealed off with sap by the time you spray them..no penetration of the herbicide down thru the cambium layer. I'll cut 1/2 dozen with the saw, put the saw down, pick up the backpack sprayer and coat the stump tops, then pick the saw back up and cut some more. rinse and repeat..
Remedy is good stuff, and I use a lot of it, but it isn't the end all-be all of herbicides. It doesn't work well on anything that has a shiny slick leaf. It needs to be mixed with a penetrant on that type foilage..like diesel.
(I haven't used Surmount so I can't comment on it, but have seen it recommended lots of times here at CT)
I know a man that mows black berries and goes right along behind spraying the fresh cut, needs to be done within 15 min., He says he can get an almost complete kill, He uses Remedy. I have never tried it so don't know how well it would work. I talked to Winfield a few days ago about shearing some American Elms at ground level and what I needed to do to kill them . They told me to spray them with in 15 min. with tordon (may not be spelled right )
 

jerry27150

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I would basil bark spray the trees with gordons brush killer & remedy mixed. they will die & fall or you can cut them a year later & no roots will come back. grass will start growing soon as they die. blackberries , I would cut & spray stems also. works here in north mo
 

greybeard

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BRYANT":ewgxd9h3 said:
I know a man that mows black berries and goes right along behind spraying the fresh cut, needs to be done within 15 min., He says he can get an almost complete kill, He uses Remedy. I have never tried it so don't know how well it would work. I talked to Winfield a few days ago about shearing some American Elms at ground level and what I needed to do to kill them . They told me to spray them with in 15 min. with tordon (may not be spelled right )
Tordon will work for cut stump for sure. I just don't use it because I always have Remedy on hand anyway to use for pasture weed control.
 

FiveOaksFarmGA

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I assume since you want to use this as a grazing pasture eventually, that you already have good perimeter fencing? If not, focus on that. Then, go get you about 5 - 10 Boer Goats and hem them up out there. They'll keep all those eaten back for you and won't cost you anything to feed/fatten. Take them to the sale barn, then use that money to pay someone with a sprayer to spray the pasture for any remaining weeds. Fertilize your new clean pasture, and enjoy.
 

buzzy

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omitted treating the blackberry stumps after mowing I treat both multiflora rose and blackberry after hitting with brush hog with good results
 

BRYANT

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dun":16zmz4s7 said:
I would spray the whole thing with Surmount and leave it sit. Then next spring burn it. The biggest problem with abused/neglected pastures is you can;t reclaim them in one year. It took a long time for them to get that bad and it takes at least a couple of years to get them being back in shape.
dun the spray I used last fall did a good job but I still have several acres needing sprayed, It was kind of pricey 750.00 for 40 acres. I am thinking about hitting some of them now with Surmount my sprayer is and old 300 gal that puts out around 10 gal per acre how would you mix it for that setting ? Also will it kill sumac and sand plum and is it safe for cattle to stay in the pasture while spraying ?
thanks kb
 

dun

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BRYANT":3l7l7h8s said:
dun":3l7l7h8s said:
I would spray the whole thing with Surmount and leave it sit. Then next spring burn it. The biggest problem with abused/neglected pastures is you can;t reclaim them in one year. It took a long time for them to get that bad and it takes at least a couple of years to get them being back in shape.
dun the spray I used last fall did a good job but I still have several acres needing sprayed, It was kind of pricey 750.00 for 40 acres. I am thinking about hitting some of them now with Surmount my sprayer is and old 300 gal that puts out around 10 gal per acre how would you mix it for that setting ? Also will it kill sumac and sand plum and is it safe for cattle to stay in the pasture while spraying ?
thanks kb
Don;t have the Surmount label here right now. I've got all the mixing stuff listed on the door to the herbicide cabinet. The book should tell you how much per acre to use and just mixthat much per 10 gallons and you should be good.
 

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