Bigfoot":1d5xamy9 said:Where would I read to catch up on some of this?
Herefordtalk.com
Bigfoot, the Global Elites declared war on America. They have already won and are now in the process of divvying up the spoils.
Bigfoot":1d5xamy9 said:Where would I read to catch up on some of this?
JWBrahman":1cugnt20 said:Bigfoot":1cugnt20 said:Where would I read to catch up on some of this?
Herefordtalk.com
Bigfoot, the Global Elites declared war on America. They have already won and are now in the process of divvying up the spoils.
farmguy":i6l799qi said:SPH I could not agree more. I too was banned from HT as I think you were for not going with the flow. Really we have people reporting about the birth of polled Herefords and reporting what neighbors to some people had over 100 years ago for cattle and the condition of their fences were in. Therefore other breeds were introduced over a century ago. To obtain that info must have been a feat, my congratulations. I too have been to cattle events to hear some Hereford breeders bashing the breed. Hmmmm where's the Angus breeder list? As I have said before I had expected other breeders to point out the advantages to their breed and even weaknesses in other breeds. But I did not expect to hear Hereford breeders bashing Herefords. just my thoughts,farmguy.
Andyva":zro4xkxf said:I always figured that there was shorthorn added to knock the horns off and simmental to give them the pigment around the eyes. But I could be wrong.
SPH":12f5f8sq said:farmguy":12f5f8sq said:SPH I could not agree more. I too was banned from HT as I think you were for not going with the flow. Really we have people reporting about the birth of polled Herefords and reporting what neighbors to some people had over 100 years ago for cattle and the condition of their fences were in. Therefore other breeds were introduced over a century ago. To obtain that info must have been a feat, my congratulations. I too have been to cattle events to hear some Hereford breeders bashing the breed. Hmmmm where's the Angus breeder list? As I have said before I had expected other breeders to point out the advantages to their breed and even weaknesses in other breeds. But I did not expect to hear Hereford breeders bashing Herefords. just my thoughts,farmguy.
You, me, and several other good folks are part of a growing list of banned people on HT. Either fall in line with the agenda and bashing there else you will be censored. I still have never heard a peep from the dictator running that site who banned me without saying a word nor after I tried to contact him on why he did it but I pretty much know why as his silence and the fact he won't even acknowledge me proves the point above because if it was truly a free and open discussion there then guys like you, me, and some others who I still keep in touch with and are still following the discussions there would not have been banned. I actually don't miss being able to post there anymore with the direction it has gone the past year, it has become so negative and hateful and I as have others here commented it basically has become a form of entertainment at this point to see those who are left basically obsess over certain things and rip and turn on each other at times. I found HT several years ago while doing searches on some bulls and really enjoyed it initially and made some great contacts through it but it has become such a place full of negativity and bashing of others I had really scaled back on my posting the months leading up to my banning because no matter how logical or positive you may be in your contributions to a discussion some of those guys will never see that there are always 2 sides to a discussion and just because you repeat the same thing over and over and try to convince that it's true doesn't necessarily make it factual.
Some of these guys wonder why they have a hard time selling their cattle, well who wants to buy from someone that is openly ripping on the very breed they are raising? It would be like a car salesman telling you the vehicle he is trying to sell you all the things he doesn't like about it and saying the brand he sells is dishonest and unethical. Does the Hereford breed have room to improve on things? Of course they do but I don't feel that things are as dire and bleak as some are making them out to be and I feel that the breed has actually come a long ways to correct the problems of the past and the breed is probably as popular with the commercial cattlemen today than it has been in a long time. We've been selling bulls to guys with black cattle who not that long ago probably would never have given a Hereford bull a thought but the proof is in the results that guys are seeing with black baldies that have led to the increase in demand for Hereford bulls and I grow frustrated that some guys are so intent on obsessing over things and bad mouthing the breed and other breeders and people in the process that it is detrimental to the progress and popularity that the breed has going for it right now.
Back to the subject this thread was originally about in the first place. I don't see an issue with someone going back to use some older genetics if they feel that introducing them into their program will either help correct some issues they have or it might add something they need. But at the same time if we all are making progress and improvement in the cattle we breed then the current genetics available today should be useful as well else otherwise you are saying we haven't had any genetic improvements over the past several decades and many generations of breeding over those years and we've been spinning our tires in the mud this whole time. If there was such a thing as a perfect cow we wouldn't have all these different breeds or different types of crosses out there because cattle aren't like cookie cutters where you can make 1 type of cattle work across the board for everyone.
elkwc":3sqic1sf said:Travis haven't checked with you in a while. Was you able to sell all of your bulls this year. I ask only because most polled breeders around here have many if not most of their bulls left. Those who were able to sell out for the last 3 years have most left. Most horned breeders have only a few if any left. The exception on the polled side is one polled breeder in that area with a very good reputation. You walk into his group of 25-30 bulls and there will only be 3-4 of what would be called lower end. The rest you can gate cut and have a very good bull. I checked 3 weeks after they started selling and they had 2 bulls left. One was high headed and the other a little flighty acting also or I feel they would of been gone. They are now. Otherwise all polled breeders I've talked to have bulls left. I've had several beg me to come and take a look but I know what they have it for various reasons they won't work for me. And one breeder in particular has his bulls left but all of his bulls good enough for a good commercial herd are priced at 5. Hope you have been able to sell all of yours. There are many breeders of other breeds with bulls in their pens still so not just a polled issue. Again it just reinforces the fact that a good animal will always sell even in a down or glutted market. At least 3--40% of the bulls I see should of been castrated. But for the past 3 years they were able to sell them so some breeders I feel starting keeping bulls they were cutting 3 years ago.
SPH":3va2j5ds said:farmguy":3va2j5ds said:SPH I could not agree more. I too was banned from HT as I think you were for not going with the flow. Really we have people reporting about the birth of polled Herefords and reporting what neighbors to some people had over 100 years ago for cattle and the condition of their fences were in. Therefore other breeds were introduced over a century ago. To obtain that info must have been a feat, my congratulations. I too have been to cattle events to hear some Hereford breeders bashing the breed. Hmmmm where's the Angus breeder list? As I have said before I had expected other breeders to point out the advantages to their breed and even weaknesses in other breeds. But I did not expect to hear Hereford breeders bashing Herefords. just my thoughts,farmguy.
You, me, and several other good folks are part of a growing list of banned people on HT. Either fall in line with the agenda and bashing there else you will be censored. I still have never heard a peep from the dictator running that site who banned me without saying a word nor after I tried to contact him on why he did it but I pretty much know why as his silence and the fact he won't even acknowledge me proves the point above because if it was truly a free and open discussion there then guys like you, me, and some others who I still keep in touch with and are still following the discussions there would not have been banned. I actually don't miss being able to post there anymore with the direction it has gone the past year, it has become so negative and hateful and I as have others here commented it basically has become a form of entertainment at this point to see those who are left basically obsess over certain things and rip and turn on each other at times. I found HT several years ago while doing searches on some bulls and really enjoyed it initially and made some great contacts through it but it has become such a place full of negativity and bashing of others I had really scaled back on my posting the months leading up to my banning because no matter how logical or positive you may be in your contributions to a discussion some of those guys will never see that there are always 2 sides to a discussion and just because you repeat the same thing over and over and try to convince that it's true doesn't necessarily make it factual.
Some of these guys wonder why they have a hard time selling their cattle, well who wants to buy from someone that is openly ripping on the very breed they are raising? It would be like a car salesman telling you the vehicle he is trying to sell you all the things he doesn't like about it and saying the brand he sells is dishonest and unethical. Does the Hereford breed have room to improve on things? Of course they do but I don't feel that things are as dire and bleak as some are making them out to be and I feel that the breed has actually come a long ways to correct the problems of the past and the breed is probably as popular with the commercial cattlemen today than it has been in a long time. We've been selling bulls to guys with black cattle who not that long ago probably would never have given a Hereford bull a thought but the proof is in the results that guys are seeing with black baldies that have led to the increase in demand for Hereford bulls and I grow frustrated that some guys are so intent on obsessing over things and bad mouthing the breed and other breeders and people in the process that it is detrimental to the progress and popularity that the breed has going for it right now.
Back to the subject this thread was originally about in the first place. I don't see an issue with someone going back to use some older genetics if they feel that introducing them into their program will either help correct some issues they have or it might add something they need. But at the same time if we all are making progress and improvement in the cattle we breed then the current genetics available today should be useful as well else otherwise you are saying we haven't had any genetic improvements over the past several decades and many generations of breeding over those years and we've been spinning our tires in the mud this whole time. If there was such a thing as a perfect cow we wouldn't have all these different breeds or different types of crosses out there because cattle aren't like cookie cutters where you can make 1 type of cattle work across the board for everyone.
JWBrahman":13choiyt said:SPH,
The weird part is you have two Australians, an Englishman, and an Argentinean doing the most whining about American Herefords. Foreign competitors talking trash about America.
Look what happened when Nash Herefords posted photos of functional cattle with good feet, udders and pigment. They were immediately accused of being impure Hereford. Not by someone who has actually purchased and used their cattle, but by a foreign competitor.
How many cattlemen in the United States sell based on purity? Crickets
1) live calf every year
2) calf grows well on minimal inputs
3) carcass has above average yield with choice grade
Everything else is BS marketing, propaganda, and an outright attempt to destroy our reputation in the global marketplace.
If you read my post in HT you will find why I don't take a very good bull with black hair. Those are the rules of the local Association.Elder Statesman":kxbcuqb3 said:JWBrahman":kxbcuqb3 said:SPH,
The weird part is you have two Australians, an Englishman, and an Argentinean doing the most whining about American Herefords. Foreign competitors talking trash about America.
Look what happened when Nash Herefords posted photos of functional cattle with good feet, udders and pigment. They were immediately accused of being impure Hereford. Not by someone who has actually purchased and used their cattle, but by a foreign competitor.
How many cattlemen in the United States sell based on purity? Crickets
1) live calf every year
2) calf grows well on minimal inputs
3) carcass has above average yield with choice grade
Everything else is BS marketing, propaganda, and an outright attempt to destroy our reputation in the global marketplace.
My thoughts exactly. The Argentinean wouldn't take those good cattle because of black tail hair. lol And pigment and spots on their faces. They need to take a look at some of the paintings of some foundation Herefords from England in the 1800's.
And when I see pictures of some of those "pure" Herefords from South American and England, I am not impressed. And the commercial guys who buy bulls here wouldn't be either.
I fully believe this is a marketing gimmick by a few who want to claim they are the only source of "pure" genetics. Here and in England. It also serves as a platform for others to protest against the "big boys" and make themselves feel better.
Andyva":bi83yaix said:So, with old genetics, is it possible to get back past when the other stuff was added? Or does it matter? We went hereford angus hereford angus for a lot of years. The last couple hereford bulls we had on the place looked good, but they didn't throw good replacement cows, which was the only reason we had them in the first place. I crossed over to the dark side of the other red british breed to use in a rotating cross bred commercial herd. The shorthorn people embrace their mixed up crossbred cattle. It says right on the pedigree what percentage of what is in there. All the known defects can be tested for and carrier status is on there too. If it's 15/16ths it is a purebred, the way they have it figured. There is old stuff floating around, in ampules, from back in the sixties. You might get back far enough to where the stuff that we know about was mixed in, what was back beyond that? If you go back far enough, you will have some stubby little cattle, according to all the pictures I have seen. I don't believe there is any semen old enough to go back beyond the belt buckle cattle craze back in the 40s and 50s.