Ideal beef cow include some dairy?

[WAguy]

I'm a 5 acre cowboy with 2 cows. One is an Angus/Jersey cross I milk. She gave me a heifer out of a Hereford bull. This heifer being 3/4 beefer is quite stocky. I've noticed the heifer has a strong appetite - more than the cow.

So, here's my theory. The momma cow is half Jersey - scrawnier and therefore less muscle mass, and therefore burns fewer calories. She eats less to maintain her body so saves on feed throughout the year.

So, I'm wondering if it's discussed in cow circles how to have a more scrawny cow to save feed. Or is it impossible to have a scrawny cow without having a scrawny calf?

Seems if the cow is scrawnier because of dairy in her, she could put more calories into milk than into body mass maintenance. Only problem is getting a whole herd of part dairy cows, I suppose.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

The word scrwany implies malnutrition.

 

[mnmtranching]

I wonder how many beef cattle people want dairy in their herds. :shock: With all the genetics available in the beef industry, I can't see anyone wanting dairy blood. :roll:

 

[UG]

I'm sure part of the "scrawny" factor in this cow is due to being part Jersey. However, if you walk through pastures with several cows, frequently the heaviest milking cows will also be scrawny; especially in years when the pastures are not very lush (i.e. drought) making it difficult for the cows to maintain their condition.

For years many beef producers thought that the more milk a cow produced the better she was; afterall she typically weaned a heavy calf. However, a heavy milking cow also eats more and research is showing that typically a producer is money ahead to have a more moderate milking cow.

Not only that, but heavy milking cows are also more likely to not breed back as quickly since they are frequently putting energy into making milk rather than improving in condition.

That being said, I know that Leachman's in Montana did some research utilizing Jerseys in their beef crossbreeding program years ago.

 

[Frankie]

I'm a 5 acre cowboy with 2 cows. One is an Angus/Jersey cross I milk. She gave me a heifer out of a Hereford bull. This heifer being 3/4 beefer is quite stocky. I've noticed the heifer has a strong appetite - more than the cow.

So, here's my theory. The momma cow is half Jersey - scrawnier and therefore less muscle mass, and therefore burns fewer calories. She eats less to maintain her body so saves on feed throughout the year.

So, I'm wondering if it's discussed in cow circles how to have a more scrawny cow to save feed. Or is it impossible to have a scrawny cow without having a scrawny calf?

Seems if the cow is scrawnier because of dairy in her, she could put more calories into milk than into body mass maintenance. Only problem is getting a whole herd of part dairy cows, I suppose.

I guess it depends on your location, forage, etc. Look around your area and see how many people have dairy influence in their cow herds. But where I live, dairy cattle milk too heavily to be practical on pasture. Milk is not free. The cow must have more food (grain or grass) to maintain her body condition and breed back for another calf. Once upon a time, there was a push in this area for people to buy dairy heifers, grow them out on grass, get them bred, and sell them back to the dairy. For a few years you saw a lot of Holstein cows in pastures. But it didn't take too many years for them to disappear. They have been bred to produce milk, not beef. We have a neighbor who had a few Jersey cows. Those Jersey cows would raise a dozen orphan calves for her every year. But that was back when people were giving away orphans.

 

[KNERSIE]

So, here's my theory. The momma cow is half Jersey - scrawnier and therefore less muscle mass, and therefore burns fewer calories. She eats less to maintain her body so saves on feed throughout the year.

The flaw in your theory lies in the fact that the added milk production from the jersey makes for the need of a higher level of nutrition and would make the cow harder keeping and not easier keeping.

That being said, it is very possible that some dairy influence in your cow herd may add to higher weaning weights in a system where all calves are sold at weaning age. Typically 1/4 dairy inlfuenece 3/4 well planned beef influence won't hurt too many production systems, but that will only work where the environment meet the nutritional needs.

In the UK the angusXbritish friesian and angusxhereford cows are what the whole suckled beef production was based on. These cows will typically be bred to a charolais or limousin and the calf will be heavily creep fed and only be weaned at 9.5 - 10 months old and will go directly to the slaughterhouse weighing 1000-1100lbs. This type of system was upset a bit by the holstein influence making the cows harder doers and less fertile, so three way crosses become more popular now.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i had rather have a 800 - 900 pnd moderate milking beef cow . than a 800+ heavy milking jersey.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Not a whole lot a difference between a Jersey and a plus 30 milk EPD Angus as far doing ability goes. The Jersey would probably marble better though-Leachman's had a bit of Jersey in their calving ease line of hybrid bulls. We used to have a old Jersey that we stuck twins and orphans on-she wintered out with the rest but I still think I'll stick to baldies.

 

[dun]

Dairy influence can be a 2 sided sword. You will get more milk, but you can accomplish the milk deal with some of the beef breeds with proper selection, and if they show any lightness in the muscle you'll take a dock for muscle. As has been said in an earlier post, unless you have some really spectacualr forage you're not going to be able to get a Jersey or any other dairy for that matter to milk enough to make up the differences from the beef cow.

dun

 

[bigbull338]

there nothing wrong with a dairy Xbeef cow.an yes i know im kicking a hornets nest.but the dairy cross will wean a heavier calf,but some cows will pull down milking heavy.so you have to feed them some feed.

 

[WAguy]

First, when I say scrawny, I mean less muscle mass, not less fat. Dairy cows are less muscled so they don't waste energy supporting muscle mass. Just like Leghorn hens have small bodies so the energy goes to eggs. And all the fitness gurus emphasize building muscle mass because it burns more calories.

I'm not talking about a purebred Jersey here – calves don't grow at all. I'm just talking some dairy to get a cow with less muscle mass. Everyone mentions the extra needs of a heavier milking cow, but what about the extra needs of a more muscular cow?

So which do you want, a cow that has to burn more calories to maintain her own body (wasted), or one that puts more into milk which goes to growing a calf?

Breed a half Jersey cow to beef and get ¾ beefer calf which is more muscled than mom so grows well, but mom eats less for her own muscle maintenance.

I doubt I've discovered a new idea. The answer is probably that the extra growth in a calf from a muscular cow more than compensates for the extra feed needed to support that cow. Right?

And of course, practically speaking, if ¼ dairy is ideal, you aren't going to find many. I have the mixture just because I want alittle milk every day, and I want to convince myself I've also got the ideal beef growing mix.

My brother has an Angus/Holstein cow he doesn't milk, but raises two calves on – hers from an Angus bull, and a Holstein bull calf he buys. Anyway, he's been told at the sale barn her Angus bred calves are the best they've ever seen.

 

[Alice]

My brother has an Angus/Holstein cow he doesn't milk, but raises two calves on – hers from an Angus bull, and a Holstein bull calf he buys. Anyway, he's been told at the sale barn her Angus bred calves are the best they've ever seen

I'm not surpised.

Alice

 

[MoGal]

My hubby has done the same thing for years. Holstein x angus and holstein/angus x angus but he doesn't have the quality in the calves as a crossbred beef would. I think if he'd cross them to Charolais then it would add muscle to his calves, hopefully I can convince him of that one of these days.

Jersey supposedly marbles better than angus, but like others have said it takes more forage or supplement with grain when you've got a heavy milker.

 

[mnmtranching]

I can't think of any +'s offhand for having dairy mix in your beef herd, but I can think of a few -'s

harder fleshing
big udders
fertility problems
udders going bad, a young calf may only use 1 or2 quarters.
cow longevity
odd colors
not as Winter hardy
docked at the sale barn

 

[suscofa]

My neighbor bottle fed several 1/2 angus 1/2 holstein heifers a few years ago and they have been his best producers of calves after he crosses them with pure bred angus bulls