How to develop a productive herd ?

[cowboy43]

I will try to ask this question where it makes sense.

It seems everyone has a different calving percentage rate and the average should be over 90%. If you have a herd of 20 to 30 cows with less than average calving percentage rate, what steps need to be taken to increase that rate? Is a cows reproduction rate genetic or the feed ,protein and minerals she receives, I have noticed over the years lots of times some of my cows do not rebreed till the calf is pulled off her and in the lifespan of a cow a lot of production is lost. I think she should rebreed within 3 months to have a calf every year. This is for a commercial herd, so how does one increase the reproduction rate of his herd?

 

[Angus Cowman]

I take it form your statement that you calve yr round
If possible try to have a controlled breeding season
make sure your cows stay in good BCS and have a good mineral available at all times
cull any cow that does not breed or calve every 12 months

DON"T keep any replacemnet hfrs from cows that don't calve every 12 months

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Mineral is very important.

 

[randiliana]

All of what you said. Genetics, feed and mineral all play a part in conception. As well as disease

Good BCS (5-6 is ideal), a good mineral program, a good vaccination program and cull, cull, cull.

Around here, we do our best to make sure that cows receive enough nutrition to meet their needs, especially right after calving until the grass is ready. They get free choice mineral, and we have them on a good vaccination program which includes the most common reproductive diseases. Often with cows that are late to breed you are dealing with a disease that caused the fetus to be resorbed shortly after conception, and then the cow rebreeds again later.

And, then we cull. We have a defined breeding/calving season, any cow that doesn't breed within that seaon is culled, no second chances. Also, don't keep replacement heifers off of cows that tend to be late calvers or which you have had breeding issues with before. Get your bulls BSE'd to make sure that they aren't the problem.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

All of the above are excellent answers.
Here's a link to know how to know what Body Condition Score your cows are in.
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/beef/400-795/photos1-9.html
Nutrition, (which includes a great mineral program)
Health, (which includes a great vaccination program)
Fertility (genetics)

 

[Baldie Maker]

You could also look at on the bull side and use those with above average stay-ability and CEM. If cattle struggle to have their first calf they are less likely to stay as long as those contemporaries that didn't.

 

[robert]

don't carry passengers; don't make excuses to keep cows that don't do their job; don't keep cows that are a hazard to themselves, you or others; develop a set of guidelines or parameters for your operation and stick to them, let nature sort them;

I'm sure some will think I'm off my rocker but we haven't fed any mineral to anything for over 10 years now, with the only exception to that being a shot of BoSe to newborn calves, good hay and good pasture, again letting mother nature handle the sorting stick.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

don't carry passengers; don't make excuses to keep cows that don't do their job; don't keep cows that are a hazard to themselves, you or others; develop a set of guidelines or parameters for your operation and stick to them, let nature sort them;

I'm sure some will think I'm off my rocker but we haven't fed any mineral to anything for over 10 years now, with the only exception to that being a shot of BoSe to newborn calves, good hay and good pasture, again letting mother nature handle the sorting stick.

Robert & I agree on almost everything - but we are on opposite sides on the mineral subject.

 

[dun]

don't carry passengers; don't make excuses to keep cows that don't do their job; don't keep cows that are a hazard to themselves, you or others; develop a set of guidelines or parameters for your operation and stick to them, let nature sort them;

I'm sure some will think I'm off my rocker but we haven't fed any mineral to anything for over 10 years now, with the only exception to that being a shot of BoSe to newborn calves, good hay and good pasture, again letting mother nature handle the sorting stick.

Robert & I agree on almost everything - but we are on opposite sides on the mineral subject.

I go along with Jeanne on this one. Very few of us are located in an area that the forage can provide ALL of the necesarry minerals in adequate quantitys.

 

[robert]

we are about 70 mi from Jeanne, I know we are low in copper, selenium, soils tend towards a slightly acid (5.7 - 6.5). It really isn't a case of our ground/forage meeting all mineral requirements, it is a case of not providing crutches to mask adaptability. I have to laugh when I hear all the grazing guru's preach no crutches and then add the caveat "except minerals and salt of course", we don't do anything remarkable or different, we rotationally graze, we feed dry, mostly 1st cut hay to the brood cows and coming twos, from when the grass is gone to about early march (we calve Jan, feb) then add some 3rd/4th cut baleage from early march thru breeding season (late march til late april) then out to grass again. Over time the one's that make it stay and reproduce, the one's that don't, well, it's why we call them beef cattle isn't it? Yes, I'm a cheap be nice, but the selection over time for production within my constraints has resulted in a cow herd that is fertile, utilizes the resources available and produces a saleable product, and I'm happy with that.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

They are doing great now - just think how good they would be doing if they had mineral :banana:
Seriously, Robert is going against the grain (what's new!) and has been working for him - for now. I still would never recommend this to anyone. Research over & over proves differently. Mineral suppliment is one of those very subtle things - hard to SEE a difference.
I'll have to calculate how much per head I spend on mineral. I'm sure it's quite significant.
Edit: OK, looked up 2009 figures. Spent $27/hd/year (excluding any calves). A lot of $$, yes, but IMO worth it. So, if you have a 50 head cowherd, that would be $1350/yr expense. I think I can find $1300 spent a lot more foolishly.

 

[robert]

11 years and counting, how long should I continue with this before it would be accepted that it works?

 

[KNERSIE]

The short answer is that the only way you are going to have a more fertile and more productive herd is to cull all cows raising poor calves and also cull all cows not calving within the expected timeframe regardless of how good the calf looked at weaning. How much supplement you give is up to you, but like Robert i give nothing, but that will ultimately decide how hard you're going to cull in those initial years.

In my case my breeding season is from 1 Oct - 30 Nov, the bulls get pulled and all opens at weaning gets fattened for slaughter. All cows not able to raise a marketable calf at weaning time gets culled regardless of whether she is in calf or not. All faults, especially poor doers and big teats get culled at the same time. Do this for 3 years and you'll be surprised how much progress you have made.

 

[cowboy43]

Keeping accurate records would be one of the first steps to take.

If a first calf heifer raises a low weight calf at weining , is this a sign she will be a poor performer the rest of her life or is she given a second chance?

Will a good cow produce a top calf each year or will she sometimes have a under performing calf then the next calf a top calf?

 

[KNERSIE]

Keeping accurate records would be one of the first steps to take.

Most definately!

If a first calf heifer raises a low weight calf at weining , is this a sign she will be a poor performer the rest of her life or is she given a second chance?

Depends on how poor, if the calf is so poor it can't be marketed with the rest of the calves at weaning then yes, she's never going to be milky, but if the calf is considerately lighter than the rest, but still marketable she MIGHT be a much better milker next time.

Will a good cow produce a top calf each year or will she sometimes have a under performing calf then the next calf a top calf?

The top cows produce top calves year after year almost regardless to what bull she is bred to.

 

[Brandonm22]

11 years and counting, how long should I continue with this before it would be accepted that it works?

It works for you. It could be a disaster someplace else where the environment has greater deficiencies. A good mineral program is not a crutch it is insurance like a vaccination program: the cost is small compared to the potential losses if the perfect storm of everything going wrong happens one year. With what calves are bringing right now, one or two less calves at the pay window will pay for an awful lot of mineral.

 

[TexasBred]

11 years and counting, how long should I continue with this before it would be accepted that it works?

Think how much better and easier it could have been by being flexible. :lol2: :lol2:

 

[robert]

define 'better or easier'.

 

[hillbillycwo]

Robert,
Using Jeane's figures I was wondering...at 1350 pear year in mineral over that last 11 years of the natural selection process to get where you are today with your herd (congrats by the way) would it have been cheaper or at least more cost effective to feed some free choice mineral? We feed Prolick mineral loose to our cows and the cost is 13.75 per bag. 35 head consume about 10 50 pound bags every 4-5 months. I cull for the smae reasons as most but to date (thanks Lord) I have had ZERO mineral issues with calves or cows.

I paid an average of 750 for my cows apiece and when I cull one she brings an average of 550. In the last year culling heavy from being bad disposition, open, poor calving, bad purchase(rookie mistakes) or fence jumpers I have culled ten that is a 2000 dollar loss. Our area is low in many minerals copper, magnesiun etc I would hate to think of the train wreck I would have without the mineral I feed.

I am not trying to shoot holes in your prgram I am curious as to how your experience in this area may improve my bottom line. If I could cut that cost out that is more cash in my pocket and more I can use to improve my facilities and fencing. Thanks in advacne for your reply.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

A mineral program isn't very "measureable". How do you know if your great herd couldn't be doing better??
(BTW folks - Robert and I ARE friends :lol: )