How old before retiring a mama cow

[crossbredcalves]

Just to add to it, we also look at teeth as a deciding factor. We have some cows that mouth out as 7 year olds, but are at least 10-11 years old. They are in good condition and still on schedule for calving, so they stay. I have a cow that I honestly can't remember how old she is. She should calve any day now, 11 months from her last calving. As long as her teeth let her keep up condition, she will stay.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'll make the math simple, and remember this is a quick example. Tons of fault could be found in it:

Say you 100 acres of grass. The 100 acres will run 35 cows. You have expanded to 35 cows, and can't really run any more.

You keep your 3 best heifers each year. This covers normal attrition in your herd. Hopefully the quality of your herd of 35 is continuing to improve.

Rather than keep a cow until she begins to fail, and selling her for salvage (.60 x 1200=$720). Sell the cow as a long bred cow, and 9 or 10 years old (every area is different, but that could be $2000 in many places. Especially off the farm).

You know exactly when a cow will leave, and you keep replacements accordingly. In due time, you will still have "about" the same number of cows leave your herd each year. You will have a younger herd. You have captured the most productive years of a cows life, and sold her for more than double her salvage.

If your building a herd, that logic does not apply. You f you are maintaining a herd, I believe it does. If a cow is a sure nuff momma maker, then keep her till she can't go. For most of us, the average cow in our herd is just that. She's average. If your at you maximum capacity, then pursue a herd that is above average.

Many will disagree, with that logic , and even the math. I threw it together. I've been doing it for a while, and I like it. A cow is going to leave at some point. She might as well be worth something, when you sell her.

Many will say, well you kept a $900-1000 dollar heifer, that took 3 years to sell a calf. That is an expense (and it is). I say if your holding steady at 35 head, and 3 or 4 age out every year, and you keep 3 or 4 every year, that your net income will be greater.

 

[TCRanch]

As long as they are raising a good calf, staying in good shape, walking good etc. We are just about maxed out numbers wise now & unless we find more pasture we will probably start having to sell some of the older girls. We want to keep some replacement heifers each year as it is nice when you are selling bulls to know how the daughters/sisters produce in order to make future breeding decisions & advise customers. And there isn't enough problem cows to sell to make room so we will probably start selling some of the real old girls soon while they are still worth something.

This is one that I would like to keep around, but the boss says it is time for her to go

purebred BA, 17 years old, bought her when she was 10 or so. Has had a calf every year we've owned her, always first cycle and always a real nice put together calf. I convinced the boss to keep her around for one more year hoping for another heifer. She started limping in February and wasn't coming to the tractor to eat, made me worry she was going to keel over dead or something so we chased her up into the corral.

And she did give us another heifer!

She looks amazing for 17.

 

[TCRanch]

I'll make the math simple, and remember this is a quick example. Tons of fault could be found in it:

Say you 100 acres of grass. The 100 acres will run 35 cows. You have expanded to 35 cows, and can't really run any more.

You keep your 3 best heifers each year. This covers normal attrition in your herd. Hopefully the quality of your herd of 35 is continuing to improve.

Rather than keep a cow until she begins to fail, and selling her for salvage (.60 x 1200=$720). Sell the cow as a long bred cow, and 9 or 10 years old (every area is different, but that could be $2000 in many places. Especially off the farm).

You know exactly when a cow will leave, and you keep replacements accordingly. In due time, you will still have "about" the same number of cows leave your herd each year. You will have a younger herd. You have captured the most productive years of a cows life, and sold her for more than double her salvage.

If your building a herd, that logic does not apply. You f you are maintaining a herd, I believe it does. If a cow is a sure nuff momma maker, then keep her till she can't go. For most of us, the average cow in our herd is just that. She's average. If your at you maximum capacity, then pursue a herd that is above average.

Many will disagree, with that logic , and even the math. I threw it together. I've been doing it for a while, and I like it. A cow is going to leave at some point. She might as well be worth something, when you sell her.

Many will say, well you kept a $900-1000 dollar heifer, that took 3 years to sell a calf. That is an expense (and it is). I say if your holding steady at 35 head, and 3 or 4 age out every year, and you keep 3 or 4 every year, that your net income will be greater.

I don't disagree with your logic at all - and I definitely wouldn't say all my decisions are logical . One of my favorites slipped her calf 9 weeks early this year but I'm keeping her, giving her another chance because she raises awesome calves. That would be emotion over logic/$$$. Last cow we sold for salvage was .73 for 2055 lbs, almost 10 & amazing condition (not fat, just an enormous cow) but only had one working quarter. When we reach capacity we sell the ones that aren't breeding back, have attitude or raise dink calves, regardless of age. That said, we tend to keep more older cows & sell bred heifers private treaty to keep the numbers down.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Pretty much what others have said - not producing a calf or poor condition. Although we are flexible enough land and numbers-wise to allow the luxury of some slop and sentimentality. There are a few who get second chances and there are a few who will be allowed to die here.

 

[Stocker Steve]

You know exactly when a cow will leave, and you keep replacements accordingly. In due time, you will still have "about" the same number of cows leave your herd each year. You will have a younger herd. You have captured the most productive years of a cows life, and sold her for more than double

So you try to sell her before there is a lot of depreciation, which is what age range?

 

[M-5]

It's like vehicles to some people. They will trade every few yrs and others drive it till the wheels fall off. I do a little if both , it's just a judgement call. In reality using a cow up and her dying on the farm is less profitable when you subtract her value. If a cow gives you 15 yrs of calves. And let's say avg price of calves is 800.00 that's 12 k she dies after last calf her value is 500.00 so your left with 11500.00 . you keep a cow 7 yrs at 800.00 is 5600.00 and her salvage value is 1500.00 - 7100.00 x 2 for 14 yrs = 14200.00

 

[JMJ Farms]

It's like vehicles to some people. They will trade every few yrs and others drive it till the wheels fall off. I do a little if both , it's just a judgement call. In reality using a cow up and her dying on the farm is less profitable when you subtract her value. If a cow gives you 15 yrs of calves. And let's say avg price of calves is 800.00 that's 12 k she dies after last calf her value is 500.00 so your left with 11500.00 . you keep a cow 7 yrs at 800.00 is 5600.00 and her salvage value is 1500.00 - 7100.00 x 2 for 14 yrs = 14200.00

You make a good point M-5. Only thing to add is that cow #1 had a gross income of $11500 from 15 calves. Cow #2 (and her replacement #3) had a gross income of $14200. Assuming the original purchase price of #1 and #2 were the same, to be fair we've got to add $800 for the additional calf #15 (out of #2 or #3) and also subtract the replacement cost of #3 ($2000?) This would be $13000 gross income on the two cows culled before they died. Definitely the way to go (on paper anyway).

Glad you brought this up bc I've got to admit I've never thought about it quite like this. Big determining factor is "our" estimate of calf prices, salvage prices, and replacement prices. But I guess regardless of what the prices are, a cow culled as a 7 year old should always bring more than a dead 15 year old :nod:

 

[M-5]

You can make anything work on paper . since we're being hypothetical. That excellent cow that you don't sell could produce 16.3 calves if she calved every 11 months. In real life a cow that produces top calves and breads back early will more than pay for her loss when she dies or you have to sell for salvage. Also that cow is one you want to get replacements and you continue to add longevity to your herd.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I agree completely. I'm probably to lenient on my culling. Mostly bc good replacements are hard to find. But I'm almost to the point that I'm able to retain enough heifers to raise my own replacements so that should help.

Not to hijack, but regarding longevity..... I bought a bull last year to keep replacements out of. I selected him by EPDs first, then phenotype, and lastly because his momma was 17 years old and the oldest cow on the breeders farm. How much, if any, of this longevity trait SHOULD he pass on to his daughters?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I agree completely. I'm probably to lenient on my culling. Mostly bc good replacements are hard to find. But I'm almost to the point that I'm able to retain enough heifers to raise my own replacements so that should help.

Not to hijack, but regarding longevity..... I bought a bull last year to keep replacements out of. I selected him by EPDs first, then phenotype, and lastly because his momma was 17 years old and the oldest cow on the breeders farm. How much, if any, of this longevity trait SHOULD he pass on to his daughters?

IMOO longevity has just as much to do with good grass =good teeth= longevity along with environment and breed.
Out of curiosity does any breed have a longevity epd.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I agree completely. I'm probably to lenient on my culling. Mostly bc good replacements are hard to find. But I'm almost to the point that I'm able to retain enough heifers to raise my own replacements so that should help.

Not to hijack, but regarding longevity..... I bought a bull last year to keep replacements out of. I selected him by EPDs first, then phenotype, and lastly because his momma was 17 years old and the oldest cow on the breeders farm. How much, if any, of this longevity trait SHOULD he pass on to his daughters?

IMOO longevity has just as much to do with good grass =good teeth= longevity along with environment and breed.
Out of curiosity does any breed have a longevity epd.

Not that I'm aware of. Seems Brahman influenced mommas do best with longevity here. As do some of the Angus and Hereford. You're probably right. Good forage probably = longer lasting teeth. Wished I knew the exact correlation between the two.

 

[ANAZAZI]

I agree completely. I'm probably to lenient on my culling. Mostly bc good replacements are hard to find. But I'm almost to the point that I'm able to retain enough heifers to raise my own replacements so that should help.

Not to hijack, but regarding longevity..... I bought a bull last year to keep replacements out of. I selected him by EPDs first, then phenotype, and lastly because his momma was 17 years old and the oldest cow on the breeders farm. How much, if any, of this longevity trait SHOULD he pass on to his daughters?

A lot. His Sire might lower his Dam's contribution; seveteen years is still a good cow.

 

[Nesikep]

I think a lot of that just depends on how the genes line up.. If you have a great cow bred to a bull who's got homozygous for udders that fall apart, it'll throw the whole works out the window... Longevity is really a vast combination of things, and greatly environment dependent... Fertility, Milking ability (not too much, not too little), feet, udder, temperament etc are all things that have to be good for a cow to get old... I've had 2 cows make it to 18 here so far, on both of them they were getting a bit arthritic and short of teeth, but both made good calves right up to the last one

 

[Stocker Steve]

Out of curiosity does any breed have a longevity epd.

Yes, but values don't vary much. Explanation in another thread is that reg herds often cull for age.

 

[TexasBred]

Not that I'm aware of. Seems Brahman influenced mommas do best with longevity here. As do some of the Angus and Hereford. You're probably right. Good forage probably = longer lasting teeth. Wished I knew the exact correlation between the two.

For one thing half of every bite they take and chew is not sand, gravel and dirt.