How do you expand your herd?

[cfpinz]

It doesn't matter where you get heifers from when it comes to calving its a crap shoot.

That may be true to some extent, but from personal experience we have a lot less problems with our home raised replacements than any purchased animals, cows included. Any animal that goes through the market does so for a reason, some good, mostly bad.

cfpinz

 

[Hippie Rancher]

We mostly keep our own. Depending on market and available funds, might buy at a production sale at the sale barn, very rarely pick up something in general there.

Grampa used to buy a few registered Hereford heifers/cows from the Apaches back in the day.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

This has been debated on here many times before. In a commercial herd there is no way it is feasible to pencil out raising replacements. If there is no genetic gain in doing this I have no clue why someone would want to. Raising replacements should be left to seed stock producers with specific goals in mind. Keep the mongrels out of the breeding chain, there will be a general over all improvement in the cattle industry. Breeding should always be done with your final goal in mind.

Well, for me in a rough rangeland situation the plus is raising rock-footed animals already sort of pre-adapted to the specific environment on this ranch. My animals have to make a living off what grows naturally on this place and being raised here teache them what and where that is.

Commercial cattle aren't necessarily mongrels either. They can be improved with good bulls. Just because they aren't papered doesn't mean they aren't worth breeding. Plenty of papered junk out there I wouldn't take as a gift. Almost as bad as horses!

 

[skyline]

I have often wanted to start selling replacements but I have seen some hard feelings started over this from some close neighbors more than once.

Ribeye, what am I missing here? Why would selling replacements produce hard feelings with the neighbors? Competition? Or the buyer not being satisfied with the purchase?

 

[Ribeye]

Skyline, some neighbors around her just like to complain about anything. I just don't want to put myself in a position to have my named trash even though if there was something wrong with the heifer I would want to try to make it right. I guess if you pick your buyers you wouldn't have anything to worry about. Some farmers or ranchers just want to complain about anything you know the type.

 

[TexasBred]

We have Brangus and I'll buy one occasionally but mostly we keep replacements, AI everything and sell off older cows as necessary. It's not our major income source so I'll admit I don't have to necessarily always make the best business decision with them. But that said I still have several older cows, one that will be 13 in April and just had her 11th calf in October and hopefully bred back yesterday. Except for a some gray hairs here and there on her nose she still looks like a young cow.

 

[pdfangus]

Well we raise our own because:
We don't want to deal with other folks problems.
We found out years ago that any time we brought in an outside animal we ended up bringing in someone elses bugs.
sometimes not too bad but sometimes a wreck.

I would never ever buy anything that had been through a livestock market because then you will get everybodys problems.

Find someone who raises cattle you like and establish a realtionship with them. buy directly from them. Know their health program. Know the cattle dispositions.

 

[MoGal]

Moneywise for the fastest return, Caustic is right. He always has good advice.

As already mentioned, raising your own heifers seems like the temperament is better (perhaps its just because they are used to me and the routine). We have their momma and sometimes grandma so know what they can do.

We bought 17 last year, ss, bm and old, bred in 2nd and 3rd period (however the salebarn mis preg ck'd them by one stage which made us calve for a longggg period of time. However, those old cows know how to raise that calf, just give them enough pasture and let em go. We sold some of them this fall for the same price that we paid for them bred. I will say tho, these were herd sellouts at the salebarn.

We have different pastures so keep a minimum of 3 bulls (however I will say we've got some galloway x babies hitting the ground now and they are really nice so will probably use him more this year and will cross any heifers we keep to red poll).

With raising your own, I don't have to chase them all over the pasture trying to move them, that probably irritates me more than anything.

 

[alftn]

Why would anyone sale 3in1's unless they got top dollar? I keep enought girls out of my pure black angus cows to grow my herd bigger than I have land for...When you retain heifers you do not lose production on the cow for a year(you get the value of the heifer) would of had to buy her...Most of all unless i was paying a real high price, I can not buy as good of animals as i can raise....I started with reg.Black angus cow, bred to reg bulls and have four generations of good quality cows.... It just all depends on how big of a hurry you are in, how much land you have, and most of all how much money you need out of them ,or got to put into them...

 

[novatech]

Why would anyone sale 3in1's unless they got top dollar? I keep enought girls out of my pure black angus cows to grow my herd bigger than I have land for...

Doesn't the second sentence answer your question?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Why would anyone sale 3in1's unless they got top dollar? I keep enought girls out of my pure black angus cows to grow my herd bigger than I have land for...

Doesn't the second sentence answer your question?

He also thinks he didn't lose any money retaining the heifer.

He has maintained two cows for two years with no return to the bottom line at a dollar a day per cow which is cheap is a pretty expensive heifer. And now the real loser the heifer he retained has no value tax wise in case of a loss.

Doesn't matter if you want to retain your own or not just understand the true cost and quit BSing yourself.
There are a lot of reasons people retain there own nothing wrong with it, your business but it is costly.

 

[cypressfarms]

This has been debated on here many times before. In a commercial herd there is no way it is feasible to pencil out raising replacements. If there is no genetic gain in doing this I have no clue why someone would want to. Raising replacements should be left to seed stock producers with specific goals in mind. Keep the mongrels out of the breeding chain, there will be a general over all improvement in the cattle industry. Breeding should always be done with your final goal in mind.

Nova, I've got to disagree with you here. The advantage to keeping SOME of your own is that you have an idea how they will turn out. If you retain some of the heifers from your best cows, and not just keep them all, you will be improving quality. One of my "valued criteria" for cows is a good bag that will hold up for a long time. How could you know that buying blind?

Having said that, though I would rather buy pairs or 3 in 1's. I don't like to worry about heifers calving. And how many times have you heard "bred to low birth weight angus". Give me a break.

 

[denoginnizer]

I never keep my heifers because of the increased possibility of birthing difficulty and the problem with getting them re-bred after calving. Having said that, seems like there would be some point when the cost of replacements cost more than raising your own. For example, what if three in ones are bringing 1800 or 2000 apiece is it still more profitable to buy the bred cows? I guess my question would be at what price is it cheaper to raise your own replacements?

 

[fit2btied]

...And how many times have you heard "bred to low birth weight angus". Give me a break.

Probably 90% of the cows sold at our local barn are touted to "have been runnin with them good low birth weight black bulls". Good idea to check the pens before the sale starts because here they always sell the cows and calves before they run that "good" bull in. Sometimes it's like "You have got to be kiddin!" We do occaisionally buy animals through the local barn, but only after we have found out who they belonged to and have gotten enough info to satisfy us. If we don't, we keep our hands out of the air!

 

[novatech]

This has been debated on here many times before. In a commercial herd there is no way it is feasible to pencil out raising replacements. If there is no genetic gain in doing this I have no clue why someone would want to. Raising replacements should be left to seed stock producers with specific goals in mind. Keep the mongrels out of the breeding chain, there will be a general over all improvement in the cattle industry. Breeding should always be done with your final goal in mind.

Nova, I've got to disagree with you here. The advantage to keeping SOME of your own is that you have an idea how they will turn out. If you retain some of the heifers from your best cows, and not just keep them all, you will be improving quality. One of my "valued criteria" for cows is a good bag that will hold up for a long time. How could you know that buying blind?

Having said that, though I would rather buy pairs or 3 in 1's. I don't like to worry about heifers calving. And how many times have you heard "bred to low birth weight angus". Give me a break.

If you can get higher quality, genetic gain, cheaper than you can buy it, then I cannot argue. If you have a closed herd without diluted genetics, you have a closer shot at what you hope to gain. Most of what I have seen is a general lack of improvement. All and all I really don't think you are disagreeing with what I have stated. I certainly do not advise buying blind. A good seed stock producer will be able to furnish all the records you desire. Probably more than you could furnish on your own cattle. Most every one thinks seed stock producers are to high. That is not necessarily true. You just have to look hard, and not at the name brand bunch.

 

[cypressfarms]

This has been debated on here many times before. In a commercial herd there is no way it is feasible to pencil out raising replacements. If there is no genetic gain in doing this I have no clue why someone would want to. Raising replacements should be left to seed stock producers with specific goals in mind. Keep the mongrels out of the breeding chain, there will be a general over all improvement in the cattle industry. Breeding should always be done with your final goal in mind.

Nova, I've got to disagree with you here. The advantage to keeping SOME of your own is that you have an idea how they will turn out. If you retain some of the heifers from your best cows, and not just keep them all, you will be improving quality. One of my "valued criteria" for cows is a good bag that will hold up for a long time. How could you know that buying blind?

Having said that, though I would rather buy pairs or 3 in 1's. I don't like to worry about heifers calving. And how many times have you heard "bred to low birth weight angus". Give me a break.

If you can get higher quality, genetic gain, cheaper than you can buy it, then I cannot argue. If you have a closed herd without diluted genetics, you have a closer shot at what you hope to gain. Most of what I have seen is a general lack of improvement. All and all I really don't think you are disagreeing with what I have stated. I certainly do not advise buying blind. A good seed stock producer will be able to furnish all the records you desire. Probably more than you could furnish on your own cattle. Most every one thinks seed stock producers are to high. That is not necessarily true. You just have to look hard, and not at the name brand bunch.

Fair enought Nova,

I just didn't want it to seem that there could never be genetic gain in keeping your own heifers. Assuming your using good bulls, each crop should be better. I do see a problem with someone just saying "I'm going to keep all of my heifers to increase my herd". This is trouble waiting to happen. I do keep the occasional heifer or two, but she had to be a tremendous calf from a good moma & bull. There are a lot of good replacements out there. That's all my dad's been doing the last 15 years or so - raising replacements and selling them as bred heifers. He sells them right out of the pasture and you know what your getting.

To me the worst thing a person could do to increase their herd would be to go out and buy a group of bred heifers - without knowing the bulls that bred them. Seems like a train wreck waiting to happen. I've lost enough calves to "other" things without having to pull a 100 pound calf from a heifer - losing them both.

 

[angie2]

I never keep my heifers because of the increased possibility of birthing difficulty and the problem with getting them re-bred after calving.

Do we need to worry about our heifers re breeding after calving? Is this a problem?

 

[dun]

As I've said before, I won;t keep a heifer that I wouldn;t buy

 

[alftn]

You know C.B here we go again....I own my land, my cattle are not my main source of income..They are a tax wright off for me, beef in the freezer,and heifers I sale, give me income I have to pay taxes on.. The cattle are lawn mowers on the land, a saving account for hard times, and meat...Everyones has different opinions and things they like.. I love my cows, I practice very good herd management, and they get what they need..I have never had to pull a calf , and only lost one at birth, My heifer are usually two years at least when I breed them,( money aint my motive) .. I am not a large breeder, about 25 brood cows and heifers this year..In the process of fencing 7 acres at the house to keep 2007 spring heifers until 2009 ..Have 7 will cull to 5 in the first year and to 3 by 3rd year.. Running out of pasture. or I would have more cows..

 

[skyline]

Sorry for abandoning my post here. Been visiting relatives in Mississippi this weekend.

That's what I like about this forum. Lots of good, yet diverse ideas. Thanks for all of the input. I guess a lot of this depends on how many cows you currently have, how fast you are trying to grow your herd, how profit driven you are, the quality of the heifer calves that you can produce from your current cows, and the quality of stock that you can purchase.

For me, buying high quality heavy bred heifers from a cattleman that I know and trust made sense. He has good cows and he buys very good bulls. He feeds all of his steers out, and he either retains his heifers or sells them private treaty. I was starting with a small herd and wanted to get to the carrying capacity of my land quickly. I've had them for a couple of months and they are starting to calve. The first calves look great and we've had no problems so far.

I agree with Caustic from a profit standpoint. If I had a source for pairs or three in ones that were good quality for a good price, I think that would have been a better way to go financially.

Thanks again for all of the good input.