How do you expand your herd?

[skyline]

OK, I have some questions for the folks with commercial herds (not purebred). When you want to expand your herd, how do you go about it? Retain your own heifers? Buy replacements? Buy cows? Do you prefer open heifers, bred heifers, or cows or pairs? Do you buy private treaty or at the sale barn? If you buy private treaty, how do you go about finding your cows or heifers to purchase?

When I first started, I bought young open heifers. I recently bought some heavy bred heifers to expand my herd. I have retained some of my previous heifers that were out of a bull other than the one I currently own. Just curious how everyone goes about expanding and what you think about the economics of the various options.

 

[BTRANCH]

We, too, are in the process of expanding our herd. I talked to a guy for 2 hours about cows! Good thing my husband is not jealous.

We are looking at two options: Buying bred cows that I could keep heifers from and buying open heifers that I can use my bull on. I think it partly depends on how fast you are looking to expand and also how much money you can throw at it.

I have lots of time but not much money. I have two yearling heifers that I would like to keep but then we need to find another bull to breed them to or have them AI'd. We have two heifer calves born a month ago that I definately want to keep because I can register them, but then I have the same problem when it comes to breeding.

Good luck whichever way you decide.

 

[msscamp]

OK, I have some questions for the folks with commercial herds (not purebred). When you want to expand your herd, how do you go about it? Retain your own heifers? Buy replacements? Buy cows? Do you prefer open heifers, bred heifers, or cows or pairs? Do you buy private treaty or at the sale barn? If you buy private treaty, how do you go about finding your cows or heifers to purchase?

When I first started, I bought young open heifers. I recently bought some heavy bred heifers to expand my herd. I have retained some of my previous heifers that were out of a bull other than the one I currently own. Just curious how everyone goes about expanding and what you think about the economics of the various options.

We had kind of a unique set-up as our herd was a predominately closed commercial herd of registered and non-registered bred up cattle. We expanded by retaining the best of our heifers as replacements. We also purchased an occasional cow/heifer via private treaty - through word of mouth advertising from people we knew - back when we first started breeding up through AI. The biggest problem I can see with buying bred heifers at the salebarn is that the buyer does not know what they are bred too, so can get hit with a train wreck. There is also the issue of the buyer ending up with wild/ill-tempered cattle if he/she is experienced. We kept our heifers for the simple reason that we knew the breeding behind them, the performance/temperament of their mothers, grandmothers, great-grandmothers, etc.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Cheapest route is buy 3 in 1's or Heavies. Raising heifers are a losing proposition. When you retain a commercial Heifer it is two years before she will contribute to the bottom line as well as her dam adds nothing to the bottom line as well. You now have two cows not contributing to operating cost for two years. You also have the cost of maintaing the cows for two years. I used to say it cost a dollar a day to maintain a commercial cow with the cost of fertilizer and fuel its going to be higher than that this year.

 

[grubbie]

We raise our own replacements but it largely depends on your situation. There are a few pros and cons to consider.If keeping your own replacements, you need a seperate place to keep them. Don't want them in with your herd sire. You will also need to get a calving ease bull that you may not want to use on your cows for growth reasons. This means keeping an extra bull. It will also be 2 years before you get a calf out of them so you have expenses in feeding, vaccinations, etc. But,...you know the history of that animal, you can tame it down, and you will know what it is bred to when the time comes. Keep in mind raising your own is some extra work and time, but we think it is worth it. If you buy replacements, you may well just be inheriting someone elses "problem children", or worse yet, something that has been exposed to a non-calving ease bull. In my opinion buying replacements is rolling the dice, raising them can be a little extra work, but well worth it.
Good Luck!

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

I am attempting to increase my herd size as well,had to almost sell out in 06 due to drought. I am retaining all my heifers that look like they will be good prospects. I also buy private treaty when I can find what I want. We have two bulls so retaining heifers will work for awhile. Although raising up them heifers and tying up them momma cows is time consuming and costly at least I know what I have and where they came from.

 

[cfpinz]

We've done all of the above, now I prefer to raise my own replacements. Better retention rates, better attitudes, fewer surprises.

cfpinz

 

[msscamp]

...as well as her dam adds nothing to the bottom line as well. You now have two cows not contributing to operating cost for two years. You also have the cost of maintaing the cows for two years.

I understand the heifer not contributing anything to the bottome line for 2 years, but I don't understand why the heifer's dam is not contributing unless the owner has chosen to not breed her back, in which case that is his/her fault and not the animals. Could you please explain this statement a little further? Thanks!

 

[dun]

...as well as her dam adds nothing to the bottom line as well. You now have two cows not contributing to operating cost for two years. You also have the cost of maintaing the cows for two years.

I understand the heifer not contributing anything to the bottome line for 2 years, but I don't understand why the heifer's dam is not contributing unless the owner has chosen to not breed her back, in which case that is his/her fault and not the animals. Could you please explain this statement a little further? Thanks!

Since the daughter is retained there isn;t any income for the cow for that year

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

I change bulls every couple of years for this reason, and I also have the option of using any one of two or three that I have retained breeding rights to over the years. Definitely prefer to raise my own replacements.

 

[novatech]

Cheapest route is buy 3 in 1's or Heavies. Raising heifers are a losing proposition. When you retain a commercial Heifer it is two years before she will contribute to the bottom line as well as her dam adds nothing to the bottom line as well. You now have two cows not contributing to operating cost for two years. You also have the cost of maintaing the cows for two years. I used to say it cost a dollar a day to maintain a commercial cow with the cost of fertilizer and fuel its going to be higher than that this year.

This has been debated on here many times before. In a commercial herd there is no way it is feasible to pencil out raising replacements. If there is no genetic gain in doing this I have no clue why someone would want to. Raising replacements should be left to seed stock producers with specific goals in mind. Keep the mongrels out of the breeding chain, there will be a general over all improvement in the cattle industry. Breeding should always be done with your final goal in mind.

 

[dun]

We buy the occasioanl heifer, some bred some open, buy the occasioanl cow, sometimes bred, sometimes open sometimes with a calf at side, we also raise a few replacements each year. The biggest problem with keeping replacements is we rarely get rid of an older animal so things just keep slowly expanding. Gneenrally we have more success with replacements that we have bred and raised since they are from a known commodity under or managment and in our environment. We have some cows that are strictly meat producers that we would never keep a heifer from and others that we would keep heifers from depending on the calf. Some cows are alwqasy bred to terminal bulls, some to maternal bulls that will also produce calves with feedlot potential.
Works for us!

 

[HOSS]

I originally started out to raise replacements. But after going through all the hoops of raising a couple we have went with buying bred heifers from folks that we know have good calving ease bulls and have a reputation for good stock. Cost is a little higher but we can use the same bull longer and we do not have the headaches of trying to bring up our own.

 

[grannysoo]

I raise my own. Yes there is a lack of productivity while they are growing, but by raising my own, I know who the mother and father are and their traits. It also gives me time to see if the temperment of the cow is one that I like. I change bulls every 2 years, so inbreeding is not a problem for me.

I'm sure there are more cost effective ways of doing it, but this is the way that I have chosen.

 

[Limomike]

some very interesting points on this issue. I have kept back heifers as replacements, bought bred cows, heifers, and open cows too. It is expensive keeping back replacements, but you do know what you are getting. It all depends on what you are looking for, and how fast you are trying to grow your herd.

 

[Florida cattle]

I'm with you Caustic Burno 3 in 1's, 2 in 1's or heavies is the only way to go for the bottom line.

I have a uncle that owns the local stockyard and through out the year someone is always having a complete herd dipersal and I can get a heads up on it and by that way i can evalute the whole herd and pick what I want and talk to the owner. Some I have brought by private treaty this way and some I have let go through the barn and picked up.

the good thing about a 3 in 1 is that it is possible to recover the cost of the cow in less than one year.

 

[Ribeye]

We have been growing our herd pretty aggressively for the past 5 or 6 years now. Started out buying bred heifers had to pull a few calves from time to time plus didn't know anything about the heifer. I haven't had to pull a single calf either. Started retaining my own from my best cows 3 years ago the only reason I would buy heifers again would be to add better genetics. It takes a little extra time but I think the benefits pay plenty in the end product as far as to what you would buy in the sale barn in general. I have often wanted to start selling replacements but I have seen some hard feelings started over this from some close neighbors more than once.

 

[Caustic Burno]

We have been growing our herd pretty aggressively for the past 5 or 6 years now. Started out buying bred heifers had to pull a few calves from time to time plus didn't know anything about the heifer. I haven't had to pull a single calf either. Started retaining my own from my best cows 3 years ago the only reason I would buy heifers again would be to add better genetics. It takes a little extra time but I think the benefits pay plenty in the end product as far as to what you would buy in the sale barn in general. I have often wanted to start selling replacements but I have seen some hard feelings started over this from some close neighbors more than once.

It doesn't matter where you get heifers from when it comes to calving its a crap shoot. There is always the possibility of problems with any cow, the odds go down on 3 n 1's as you have a proven commodity that knows how to work.

 

[Limomike]

those 3 in 1 deals are hard to beat.. thats for sure.

 

[Ribeye]

Caustic, can't argue about the 3n1's. It's not so much a crap shoot when you know what they are bred to. Yes you will have problem from time to time. I also like and do pelvic measurements. Which some of the replacement heifer sales do.