Horse slaughter

[M5farm]

Holly,
You have every right to your opinion and cause. And so do I. I have been on horse since I was 3 yrs old and have owned several. And own 3 today. I spent years helping my uncle breed, raise, and break registered Qtr horses. At his death 5 yrs ago we sold 120 reg Qtr horse and averaged 1200.00 each when you could go to the monthly horse sale and buy one for 250.00 or less. So that alone tells you the quality and the blood line that were being raised. Before the wackos stopped the slaughter there were quality horses on the market and fair prices. I see horses every day that need to be euthanized because of old age, condition, or neglect. Slaughter houses are needed to fix this problem or all of you bleeding hearts need to open up your pocket books and buy these horses. As another poster said they are livestock just like cows, goats, chickens etc. the good lord put these animals on earth to serve mankind and if someone wants to eat one or 4.7 million in Europe so be it. Personally I think English peas should be taken off the market because I don't like them.

 

[holly heifer]

:clap: and yes, I am a wacko and proud of it! Thank the good lord there are lots of us wackos! :clap: check the anti slaughter sites- they are in full force. We will win this battle, then people like BF will no longer be lining their pockets from the $$$ of these poor horses. Improper transport, improper slaughter procedure, horses gutted before even being dead. Being trampled in a too crowded trailer or semi. Its all barbaric. I cant save them all, I can sign petitions, work at the local rescue, and save the ones I can afford . Contrary to most peoples beliefs, these horses do have " personalities" . I am all for euthansia performed by a veternarian. Horse is old, or injured or sick, the horse deserves a respectful death . Not swinging from a meat hook ! I wont be swayed to the other side, ever::::::::::::: :yuck:

 

[M5farm]

:clap: and yes, I am a wacko and proud of it! Thank the good lord there are lots of us wackos! :clap: check the anti slaughter sites- they are in full force. We will win this battle, then people like BF will no longer be lining their pockets from the $$$ of these poor horses. Improper transport, improper slaughter procedure, horses gutted before even being dead. Being trampled in a too crowded trailer or semi. Its all barbaric. I cant save them all, I can sign petitions, work at the local rescue, and save the ones I can afford . Contrary to most peoples beliefs, these horses do have " personalities" . I am all for euthansia performed by a veternarian. Horse is old, or injured or sick, the horse deserves a respectful death . Not swinging from a meat hook ! I wont be swayed to the other side, ever::::::::::::: :yuck:

All creatures have personalities so that point is invalid. And if the truth be told all of the anti slaughter people are against the slaughter of the cows that you are profiting on.

 

[holly heifer]

Cattle are food animals, and even so, I and my spouse do not eat meat. Horses are companion animals like ones dog or cat. Yes, people eat their cats and dogs, but that does not make it "right". End of story

 

[chippie]

No, horses are not companion animals & you had better hope that they will not be classified as such.

 

[M5farm]

Cattle are food animals, and even so, I and my spouse do not eat meat. Horses are companion animals like ones dog or cat. Yes, people eat their cats and dogs, but that does not make it "right". End of story

Animals are food. period! I suspect the lack of animal protein in your diet is the cause of you delusions. You are in the wrong place to push your peta agenda.

 

[-XBAR-]

No, horses are not companion animals & you had better hope that they will not be classified as such.

What will happen if they are classified as so? people will stop breeding them like puppy mills? Obviously an initial generation might 'starve' or be neglected but then what? I don't oppose the practice of eating horses but that is because I consider myself fairly open minded and I respect peoples rights to choose even if I don't necessarily agree with their choice. I don't want to eat a horse but If you do, so be it.

There is no 'right' or 'wrong' here. Its going to come down to what is deemed socially exceptable and cultural relativism will dictate the outcome rather than a universal truth of what is right.

 

[highgrit]

You are weird, misinformed, and wrong. It's the lack of meat in your diet, it's caused your brain to stop working.
To me you are just another liberal troll. This is a beef site, we raise it, kill it, and grill it.

 

[Alan]

Holly, Your narrow minded view is part of what has became a huge problem in the horse industry. I have raised, bred, trained horses for the last thirty years, here's my thoughts, asked for or not;

1. Horses are not companion animals at all, yes they do have personalities and uniqueness. But they are not like a dog or cat. Look at the eye set of a dog placed in the front of the skull like humans, a predator. A horse, like cattle are on the side of the skull, like all prey animals. You train and handle a horse much different than dogs. Treating horses as you would a dog is what ruins horses and gets people hurt. You frighten a horse or hurt it, it will take weeks to fix and regain a level of trust. You smack a dog with a newspaper he/she is back wagging it's tail in two minutes. No way in the world is a horse a companion animal.

2. My wife owns five horses and I have one. She has a TB that was rescued at two from racing trainer. A year later it was rescued from the rescuer. No horse should have to be rescued once let alone twice. It's easy to project an image over the Internet, but if you in the habit of rescuing horses you dam well better be able to provide a healthy environment for all those animals. I don't know you or your situation and I'm not saying you don't ...... Just saying. Through my horse years I have ran into too many brainless do gooders that take on too much and the animals suffer.

3. The ban on horse slaughter has ruined the horse industry and is doing plenty of harm in other ways. My horse is a QH Stallion that an appraiser valued at $15k for insurance, he's 5 yrs old. The slaughter ban went into effect and I don't think I could sell him for three grand now and wouldn't. The 7 yr old 4 H kid can't sell her 18 yr old pony to buy a 9 yr old QH she is now ready for. The high school girl can't sell her 9yr old QH to little 4 H'er in order to buy her well bred barrel horse and so on. The ban has killed the horse industry. Also what are some folks doing with their unwanted horses? The smarter ones rent a backhoe and walk the horse out to the hole with a 30-30. A lot of folks just haul the horses out to the woods or desert and open the trailer door. In many states, Oregon included, it's not illegal to release "livestock" ..... By the definition of the law horses are livestock. Some just starve the horse in hopes it will get rescued. The worse harm ever caused to horses was a ban put on horse slaughter.

4. In Oregon, Nevada and other states the BLM round up wild (feral) horses every year and try to adopt them out, they do this to help control their population. For years it was very successful and a win win. Now with the slaughter ban very few of these feral horses go out for adoption. What do you think the government does with the excess horses they can't place??? The Slaughter ban sure helped them huh?

Sign all the petitions you want, it's narrow minded idiots with tunnel vision that is doing more harm to horses in general than there ever has in the recent past. That's not a personal attack on you, you have your opinion, the attack is on everyone with a similar opinion as yours. Oh you might sense I have a strong opinion also.

Just a view from the other side. :tiphat:

Alan

 

[holly heifer]

sweet jesus - what a can of worms! Im deleting my account, didnt even bother to read that last stupid post.. I may be in the wrong place but let it be known that we will continue our fight to save the horses and we will win !!!!!! May you all have cardiac issues from your carnivore diets. :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: ____________________ ahhhh cardiac arrest

 

[chippie]

If they are classified as companion animals, Counties and cities can required that all horses be licensed, all commercial horse activities would fall outside of ag zoning and land squarely in commercial zoning. All boarding facilities would need to meet commercial zoning standards and would also lose any ag tax exemptions.
All horse feed and hay would be taxed (like other pet foods).
Legitimate horse rescues would be taxed out of business.
This would only be the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Alan]

sweet jesus - what a can of worms! Im deleting my account, didnt even bother to read that last stupid post.. I may be in the wrong place but let it be known that we will continue our fight to save the horses and we will win !!!!!! May you all have cardiac issues from your carnivore diets. :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: ____________________ ahhhh cardiac arrest

Well ...... If you didn't read it how do you know it was stupid? :roll:

BTW, I have no problems with Vegetarians, just folks that refuse to look at the other side of an argument .... Kinda like a "rebel without a clue". ( you may be too young to know that's a play on James Dean movie "a rebel without a cause". :tiphat:

 

[-XBAR-]

Holly, Your narrow minded view is part of what has became a huge problem in the horse industry. I have raised, bred, trained horses for the last thirty years, here's my thoughts, asked for or not;

1. Horses are not companion animals at all, yes they do have personalities and uniqueness. But they are not like a dog or cat. Look at the eye set of a dog placed in the front of the skull like humans, a predator. A horse, like cattle are on the side of the skull, like all prey animals. You train and handle a horse much different than dogs. Treating horses as you would a dog is what ruins horses and gets people hurt. You frighten a horse or hurt it, it will take weeks to fix and regain a level of trust. You smack a dog with a newspaper he/she is back wagging it's tail in two minutes. No way in the world is a horse a companion animal.

2. My wife owns five horses and I have one. She has a TB that was rescued at two from racing trainer. A year later it was rescued from the rescuer. No horse should have to be rescued once let alone twice. It's easy to project an image over the Internet, but if you in the habit of rescuing horses you dam well better be able to provide a healthy environment for all those animals. I don't know you or your situation and I'm not saying you don't ...... Just saying. Through my horse years I have ran into too many brainless do gooders that take on too much and the animals suffer.

3. The ban on horse slaughter has ruined the horse industry and is doing plenty of harm in other ways. My horse is a QH Stallion that an appraiser valued at $15k for insurance, he's 5 yrs old. The slaughter ban went into effect and I don't think I could sell him for three grand now and wouldn't. The 7 yr old 4 H kid can't sell her 18 yr old pony to buy a 9 yr old QH she is now ready for. The high school girl can't sell her 9yr old QH to little 4 H'er in order to buy her well bred barrel horse and so on. The ban has killed the horse industry. Also what are some folks doing with their unwanted horses? The smarter ones rent a backhoe and walk the horse out to the hole with a 30-30. A lot of folks just haul the horses out to the woods or desert and open the trailer door. In many states, Oregon included, it's not illegal to release "livestock" ..... By the definition of the law horses are livestock. Some just starve the horse in hopes it will get rescued. The worse harm ever caused to horses was a ban put on horse slaughter.

4. In Oregon, Nevada and other states the BLM round up wild (feral) horses every year and try to adopt them out, they do this to help control their population. For years it was very successful and a win win. Now with the slaughter ban very few of these feral horses go out for adoption. What do you think the government does with the excess horses they can't place??? The Slaughter ban sure helped them huh?

Sign all the petitions you want, it's narrow minded idiots with tunnel vision that is doing more harm to horses in general than there ever has in the recent past. That's not a personal attack on you, you have your opinion, the attack is on everyone with a similar opinion as yours. Oh you might sense I have a strong opinion also.

Just a view from the other side. :tiphat:

Alan

Alan, first off, GET REAL! Narrow minded view- tell me that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

1) What the H does eye set have to do with whether an animal can be a companion? Only predators? Silly logic you have here.

2) I agree no animal should suffer before euthanized or processed.

3) NO one gives a crap about the devalue of your horses. Sickening that your a only a proponent because of a monetary stake!

4) "the attack is on everyone with a similar opinion as yours" - possible the most narrow minded statement ever on CT.

 

[holly heifer]

And to XBAR : :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: see ya im out of here to save more horses!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

 

[Alan]

:welcome: back, youngster! Although after reading some of your post upon your return I'm thinking your stay will once again be short.

Once again your view of a posters comments are twisted and off base Massey. I doubt Holly needs your help, she's doing fine on her own with her comments ...... Well except the " hoping for a heart attack" comment.

Also I don't feed trolls. :tiphat:

 

[chippie]

Actually, the value does mean something. Can you imagine how the bottom would drop out of the beef industry if suddenly cattle could not be slaughtered for human consumption?

The slaughter horse market set the base guideline for horse prices, just like the cattle market price affects the price of registered seed stock and show cattle.

Personally, I think that it would be better to allow horse slaughter in the U.S. where the process can be monitored with humane guidelines, rather than horses having to endure long trailer rides to Mexico (where the slaughter process and treatment of the animals is not very kind) or to Canada.

There is not much difference whether it is a captive bolt to the head at a slaughter plant or a bullet at home.
Not everyone can afford having a vet euthanize a horse. It is expensive. The last one I had to have euthanized cost $225. and that did not include burying the horse.

 

[Alan]

Holly, Your narrow minded view is part of what has became a huge problem in the horse industry. I have raised, bred, trained horses for the last thirty years, here's my thoughts, asked for or not;

1. Horses are not companion animals at all, yes they do have personalities and uniqueness. But they are not like a dog or cat. Look at the eye set of a dog placed in the front of the skull like humans, a predator. A horse, like cattle are on the side of the skull, like all prey animals. You train and handle a horse much different than dogs. Treating horses as you would a dog is what ruins horses and gets people hurt. You frighten a horse or hurt it, it will take weeks to fix and regain a level of trust. You smack a dog with a newspaper he/she is back wagging it's tail in two minutes. No way in the world is a horse a companion animal.

2. My wife owns five horses and I have one. She has a TB that was rescued at two from racing trainer. A year later it was rescued from the rescuer. No horse should have to be rescued once let alone twice. It's easy to project an image over the Internet, but if you in the habit of rescuing horses you dam well better be able to provide a healthy environment for all those animals. I don't know you or your situation and I'm not saying you don't ...... Just saying. Through my horse years I have ran into too many brainless do gooders that take on too much and the animals suffer.

3. The ban on horse slaughter has ruined the horse industry and is doing plenty of harm in other ways. My horse is a QH Stallion that an appraiser valued at $15k for insurance, he's 5 yrs old. The slaughter ban went into effect and I don't think I could sell him for three grand now and wouldn't. The 7 yr old 4 H kid can't sell her 18 yr old pony to buy a 9 yr old QH she is now ready for. The high school girl can't sell her 9yr old QH to little 4 H'er in order to buy her well bred barrel horse and so on. The ban has killed the horse industry. Also what are some folks doing with their unwanted horses? The smarter ones rent a backhoe and walk the horse out to the hole with a 30-30. A lot of folks just haul the horses out to the woods or desert and open the trailer door. In many states, Oregon included, it's not illegal to release "livestock" ..... By the definition of the law horses are livestock. Some just starve the horse in hopes it will get rescued. The worse harm ever caused to horses was a ban put on horse slaughter.

4. In Oregon, Nevada and other states the BLM round up wild (feral) horses every year and try to adopt them out, they do this to help control their population. For years it was very successful and a win win. Now with the slaughter ban very few of these feral horses go out for adoption. What do you think the government does with the excess horses they can't place??? The Slaughter ban sure helped them huh?

Sign all the petitions you want, it's narrow minded idiots with tunnel vision that is doing more harm to horses in general than there ever has in the recent past. That's not a personal attack on you, you have your opinion, the attack is on everyone with a similar opinion as yours. Oh you might sense I have a strong opinion also.

Just a view from the other side. :tiphat:

Alan

Alan, first off, GET REAL! Narrow minded view- tell me that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

1) What the H does eye set have to do with whether an animal can be a companion? Only predators? Silly logic you have here.

Eye set? Do you really think a predator acts the same as a prey animal or is physically the same as a each other? Therefore because of their different actions they are trained much different. Eye set is the quickest, easiest way to determine if you're dealing witha predator (meat eater) or prey animal.

2) I agree no animal should suffer before euthanized or processed.

Okay

3) NO one gives a crap about the devalue of your horses. Sickening that your a only a proponent because of a monetary stake!

I'll combine 3 and 4. These days my horse and my wife's horses are only used for our enjoyment, I don't even stud out my horse. I am part of the "no one gives a crap about the devalue of MY horse" group. But as Chippie and myself basically stated the devalue of horses in general has crippled the industry. But let's look at your statement in 3 and 4, in 3 you said "no one" meaning the group of everyone else but me, in 4 you blasted my statement "everyone with a similar opinion", meaning only the folks with a similar opinion, not everyone. I guess since you included everyone and I only included some you now have the honor of "possibly the most narrow minded statement ever on CT"!

4) "the attack is on everyone with a similar opinion as yours" - possible the most narrow minded statement ever on CT.

Okay I'll feed you, but with luck it's only this once.

 

[Bigfoot]

It's a travesty that slaughter has been stopped in the US. Horses still get slaughtered. It's ruining the industry. It's made it bad on both ends. The top and the bottom. It used to not be a big deal to take a chance on a colt. If it didn't work out, it had some value, and you could always get rid of it. Now you had better be certain, cause its yours for along time.

 

[-XBAR-]

I love how you refer to it as the 'industry.' The only horse industry that OS of any measure is the show horse industry. Most horses are pets and hobbies here. What % of horses would you say are actually involved in any quantifiable production?

 

[chippie]

It is an industry and has been referred to as such for a very very long time. There is a lot of money in breeding, racing and showing.
Where do you think that the pet horses come from? Many pet horse owners own a registered horse and many pet horse owners show, rodeo, and participate in competitive events.

There is big money involved in the horse industry and actually people are spending big bucks on good proven horses. And by big bucks, I mean 5 to 6 figures. You should check out the Ranch Horse sale at the Fort Worth Stock Show.

A person can expect to spend $4k plus for a good ranch horse. Show horses more (AQHA and APHA).
And good hunters/jumpers are holding their prices too.

I don't understand what you mean by "quantifiable production".