Honest assessment of an epd

[SmokinM]

So much on here about them. What's good what's bad who got it and who's not it. I would like an honest assessment from those on here that know and understand them about my new bull. I have what I would consider a mediocre understanding of them and am trying to learn more. Goals with this bull is to breed heifers fairly trouble free and still get a calf that will sell well at the market. I wanted some marbling in the mix if I decide to keep a few to direct market. I am not a good photographer so we won't get into phenotype right now. Is he the best looking bull ever no but no glaring flaws I can see. Just like most there is stuff I would improve and some I really like. Just looking for honest feedback and I have thick skin. Thanks!

AAA#19172519

Quakerhill Payweight 7BP28

 

[Lazy M]

There is a graph of his epds. Looks like he should work well for your goals. Nice buy!

 

[cow pollinater]

That's a lot of milk... Maybe to much(it would be for me). I wouldn't hesitate to use him on heifers but I wouldn't be surprised if he's not quite as calving ease as the numbers suggest as his dam adds a lot of calving ease. Nothing wrong with his sire but he's not a super calving ease bull.
What kind of cows are you using him on?

 

[SmokinM]

I would be using him on angus but also have been really looking at getting some limo or limflex to try as a cross. The milk epd is one I do not understand so if you or somebody can elaborate on that and why you can have "to much" that would be great.

CP I have a lot of respect for your knowledge so if you have suggestions on a cross I am all ears. Thanks

 

[Nesikep]

I would be using him on angus but also have been really looking at getting some limo or limflex to try as a cross. The milk epd is one I do not understand so if you or somebody can elaborate on that and why you can have "to much" that would be great.

CP I have a lot of respect for your knowledge so if you have suggestions on a cross I am all ears. Thanks

No expert either, but a high milk EPD would matter if you're going to keep replacements from him, especially if your feed isn't up to supporting the demands of that milk production.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Excellent thread, I hope it stays on track.

 

[sstterry]

There is a graph of his epds. Looks like he should work well for your goals. Nice buy!

It would really help me if there was a program or a site that could take any epds and make a graph out of them. It makes it much easier to visualize. Does such a site or program exist?

 

[Son of Butch]

There is a graph of his epds. Looks like he should work well for your goals. Nice buy!

Excellent epds for a calving ease deluxe bull.
But I will emphasize the accuracy is less than 50% so 50/50 chance he'll be as good as they suggest.

His top 1% milk baffles me a bit in that it's higher than his sire's, dam's and mgs, combined with .34
accuracy leads me to believe it will end up lower when time reveals the truth.
Milk is an overrated epd, milk is only .12 heritable and when .34 accuracy nearly meaningless.
Environment/management is 88% of milk with genetics only 12%

IMO
Management and EPDs go hand in glove.
Genetics get all the hype... because A.I. studs and breeders are selling hope... and easy fixes.
My honest assessment of epds is they are useful and a good manager wouldn't be without 'em, but
Management and hard work influence profit more than genetics.

 

[Son of Butch]

There is a graph of his epds. Looks like he should work well for your goals. Nice buy!

It would really help me if there was a program or a site that could take any epds and make a graph out of them. It makes it much easier to visualize. Does such a site or program exist?

All the major breed association sites provide them online for their breed at no charge.
You'll just need to learn how to navigate their sites to access them.

 

[sstterry]

All the major breed association sites provide them online for their breed at no charge.

Can you point me to one so I can see what it looks like?

 

[Son of Butch]

All the major breed association sites provide them online for their breed at no charge.

Can you point me to one so I can see what it looks like?

Yes I can. ... no sense of humor? ... okay fine...

Go to Angus association home page.
In upper right corner of the page you'll see 2 boxes for searching.
set the first one to animal, in the 2nd search box enter the animal's registration number
click search and it will take you to that animal's EPD detail page
to get it in graph form... 2/3 down the page on the left you'll see EPD Percentiles
click on it and it will take you to the EPD page in graph form.
:tiphat:

 

[cow pollinater]

I would be using him on angus but also have been really looking at getting some limo or limflex to try as a cross. The milk epd is one I do not understand so if you or somebody can elaborate on that and why you can have "to much" that would be great.

CP I have a lot of respect for your knowledge so if you have suggestions on a cross I am all ears. Thanks

We're just looking at numbers here so I say this without seeing the bull, he's be a good one to cross with limousin. Justice semen is still widely available, I think I'd get some when this bulls daughters come along. I've seen payweight daughters bred to justice that were really, really good and the Justice would moderate the milk some in the resulting daughters.

With milk EPD's it's not really a case of more is always better. Milk comes at a cost to the cow so you have to find the level of milk that your cows can sustain without causing problems with body condition or breedback.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

SOB quote: "IMO
Management and EPDs go hand in glove.
Genetics get all the hype... because A.I. studs and breeders are selling hope... and easy fixes.
My honest assessment of epds is they are useful and a good manager wouldn't be without 'em, but
Management and hard work influence profit more than genetics."

Excellent point!!! I try to tell everyone - EPD's are a great TOOL - they are not gospel.

 

[Gators Rule]

Without knowing anything about your angus bull or geographical location I would think a limo cross would be good as well as Simmental. The problem with Simmental is you would need to be careful with the milk production your bull may add. Most Simmental already bring enough milk to the table without the bull adding more.

 

[sstterry]

All the major breed association sites provide them online for their breed at no charge.

Can you point me to one so I can see what it looks like?

Yes I can. ... no sense of humor? ... okay fine...

Go to Angus association home page.
In upper right corner of the page you'll see 2 boxes for searching.
set the first one to animal, in the 2nd search box enter the animal's registration number
click search and it will take you to that animal's EPD detail page
to get it in graph form... 2/3 down the page on the left you'll see EPD Percentiles
click on it and it will take you to the EPD page in graph form.
:tiphat:

Thanks, I had never noticed that on the page before.

 

[Ebenezer]

The accuracy is part of the issue but the HP value would concern me to use him on Angus cattle but on crossbreds the fertility already gets a boost from heterosis and there would be less concern.

I cannot grasp the MM EPD being that high. It would not work here but it must work somewhere. AAA used to have a calculator to tell you the MM range to consider. I do not know if it is still on the website or not.

 

[Ebenezer]

Found it:

http://www.angus.org/Performance/OptimalMilk/OptimalMilkModule.aspx

 

[True Grit Farms]

Found it:

http://www.angus.org/Performance/OptimalMilk/OptimalMilkModule.aspx

That was pretty much dead on for our operation. 18 - 21 milk is what the chart came up with for us.

 

[76 Bar]

Found it:

http://www.angus.org/Performance/OptimalMilk/OptimalMilkModule.aspx

Surprised this tool took so long to surface and especially amongst the AAA devotes . Perhaps there was a reason. :roll:

 

[cow pollinater]

IMO
Management and EPDs go hand in glove.
Genetics get all the hype... because A.I. studs and breeders are selling hope... and easy fixes.
My honest assessment of epds is they are useful and a good manager wouldn't be without 'em, but
Management and hard work influence profit more than genetics.

Yes. I've always figured genetics is 25% of production. If you were to take, for example, a high growth sire and put them in a low input type management environment they will usually hold their own with the other calves. If you put the same calves in a management situation where they get everything handed to them then the extra gain is realized. The EPD is only an average of how they perform across all sources where the genetics are used so one manager might only get an extra five pounds whereas someone else might get an extra seventy five.