Herford Sired Calves

[Lon]

Let me start by saying i have no experience with herdord. Now my father in law bought some heifers bred to low birthweight herford bulls. I am watching them for him. So far 6 calves hit the ground without losing one yet but have pulled 4 out of the 6. In my opinion they seem to have short legs and big heads for their body. the head is right on the hoof everytime coming out. The one today i cant get over how big of head it had. Is this common for herford sired calves or was it just the bull they were bred to?

 

[angusdave63]

i would blame it on the bull i have a few herford cows and they have small heads but ocasionally i see one with a large head i think it was more common 20 or 30 years ago though. i think the herford breed has come a long way since the 70's as far as meat and refinement go there was a time when you could not give me a herford bull but today i am looking into adding a herford to my angus cows David

 

[Kingfisher]

Let me start by saying i have no experience with herdord. Now my father in law bought some heifers bred to low birthweight herford bulls. I am watching them for him. So far 6 calves hit the ground without losing one yet but have pulled 4 out of the 6. In my opinion they seem to have short legs and big heads for their body. the head is right on the hoof everytime coming out. The one today i cant get over how big of head it had. Is this common for herford sired calves or was it just the bull they were bred to?

How do you know when you " have to pull em?" Thanks in advance.

 

[tncattle]

Is "Herford" a new breed? ;-)

 

[I luv herfrds]

How about a picture of the calves.

Kingfisher we only help is when the cow or heifer is in hard labor, pushing for all she's worth and the head will not pass. To me that means their rear end lifts completely off the ground during a contraction and has been doing it for quite some time. Cow is panting hard and she is no longer pushing during a contraction. I watch the side and I can see the contraction.
Only other time is when the the calf is coming backwards.

Oh it is spelled Herefords. ;-)

 

[Lon]

How about a picture of the calves.

Kingfisher we only help is when the cow or heifer is in hard labor, pushing for all she's worth and the head will not pass. To me that means their rear end lifts completely off the ground during a contraction and has been doing it for quite some time. Cow is panting hard and she is no longer pushing during a contraction. I watch the side and I can see the contraction.
Only other time is when the the calf is coming backwards.

Oh it is spelled Herefords. ;-)

Hereford sired calves. haha well i will try and find my wifes camera and see if i cant snap a pic. these calves they sure are feeling thier oats though. i will have to say though that they seem to look like really nice calves so far once up and runnin around. far as pullin a calf everything above is bout same here only thing i would ad is i have been known to pull a calf if i have to leave and she isnt getting it done just to be on the safe side but still do give her a chance to do it on her own. also if i can only see one hoof coming and then the head i will reach in to check and make sure a leg isnt back than since already at that point i just pull it. biggest deal is nice and easy when pullin give her a chance to work with you.

 

[Beef Man]

Hereford sired calves will not nessecarly have calvin g problems because of big heads. There is, in any breed ,bulls that will sire problems on heifers. Have you weighed any of these calves? Sometimes a big calf is slow comeing and the head will be swelled and usually the tongue is swelled and discolored. Just a thought. We use hereford on our heifers all the time but do pay attention to the bulls shape-- smooth shoulders, normal to smallhead, not overley thick body,and a accurate liveable actual birthweight. As you are dealing with purchased cattle you may never know what the bull looked like that they were bred to. Sounds like you are getting the calves so all I can say is hang in ther and be happy that you do not have a lot of them to deal with.

 

[Lon]

Finished the last of the boughtin ones he got. out of 10 lost one pulled 6. havent wieghed any but would guess them to be round 70-75 lbs. light heifer woulda gave her bout 65lbs for a guess. all baldy with 2 being red the rest black. wife looked yesterday and said i like the red ones they are the cutest we should have those kind. lmao got to love her opinion on stuff. now just have 20 head of cows he bought plus his own cows and then the heifers he raised. hopefully goes smooth but liery about his heifers but will see how it all goes. told him can keep helping till mid march then i will be out of this area and back home calving so will be on his own after that.

ps. i thanks for the thoughts on hereford sired calves. your right will never know what the bull was like looking at the calves though biger heads than they need, short necks and legs to me it seems like just to much trying to come out at once exspecially in a heifer.

 

[angus9259]

If I were pulling 6 of 10 there's certainly SOME underlying factor which could range from the bull, to pulling too soon, to the genetics of the cows . . . but, if it were me and I wanted to continue with those cows I'd be getting to the bottom of it.

 

[Lon]

If I were pulling 6 of 10 there's certainly SOME underlying factor which could range from the bull, to pulling too soon, to the genetics of the cows . . . but, if it were me and I wanted to continue with those cows I'd be getting to the bottom of it.

i do agree with you here. i think would have had the calfs easier just to much coming at once for a hiefer like i said. there is 3 of them if were me i would sell certainly because they were real tight and 2 of them got on the fight pretty hard, but at end of day they arent my cows and ill see them only a few times a year when i help father in law work calves in spring and then in fall.

 

[cowtex]

65 to 75# calves sounds pretty good to me. But without seeing the calves who knows.

 

[jhambley]

How fat were the heifers?

 

[Suzie Q]

I agree with jhabley. Feeding the heifers up close to calving can cause problems which has nothing to do with the bull.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Just sounds like a set of pinched assed heifers that should have went to slaughter instead of being bred.

 

[Lon]

Just sounds like a set of pinched assed heifers that should have went to slaughter instead of being bred.

i agree. probably why they were sold and he was lucky enough to buy them but he did call on his way to work and put a bid on x amount of bred heifers that would bring 1200 ,never looked at them or cared who they come from as long as were bred and not above that 1200, what he told me. also they were not over weight, fat or the sort. he bought them last late last fall and wintered them himself.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Just sounds like a set of pinched assed heifers that should have went to slaughter instead of being bred.

Is that just a polite way of saying "Angus"?

 

[Herefords.US]

Just sounds like a set of pinched assed heifers that should have went to slaughter instead of being bred.

Probably the result of stacking those ultra low BW bulls on top of ultra low BW bulls. Pretty soon you can get them bred down to where they couldn't have a jack rabbit.

George

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Just sounds like a set of pinched assed heifers that should have went to slaughter instead of being bred.

Is that just a polite way of saying "Angus"?

No WLM not a polite way of saying angus. You can get them in all breeds I agree with Herefords US about the stacking of LB bulls.

 

[KNERSIE]

Just sounds like a set of pinched assed heifers that should have went to slaughter instead of being bred.

Is that just a polite way of saying "Angus"?

No WLM not a polite way of saying angus. You can get them in all breeds I agree with Herefords US about the stacking of LB bulls.

The title of the thread and the first post sounds a lot more like hereford bashing than angus bashing to me.

I agree that if the heifers can't have a small or normal calf on her own the fault is with the heifer and not the bull. Contrary to popular believe a long head causes a lot more problems than the shorter wider heads. I've never pulled a calf in my life where the sides of the pelvic opening was the restriction, but have pulled more than a few where the calf's forehead hits the top of the pelvic opening. Add long heavy bone to the equation and you're bound to loose some sleep. (BTW I had a neighbour who milked holsteins and later on he used simmental bulls of the holsteins so I got a lot of experience pulling calves)

 

[Stocker Steve]

Probably the result of stacking those ultra low BW bulls on top of ultra low BW bulls. Pretty soon you can get them bred down to where they couldn't have a jack rabbit.

Are you saying low BW bulls will reduce pelvis size of any retained replacement heifers?