Herf/BA crosses and eye area pigmentation -- FYI

[Kathie in Thorp]

I've seen on this Board, and heard from other people, that they don't like to do the Herf/BA cross, because they don't want to deal with white faces, pink-eye, and cancerous eyes on the black baldie calves.

So, this is just for your info, and I'm not advertising anything for anybody . . . .

My brother-in-law in eastern OR raises Angus. He's got a bunch of registered stock (and sells a lot of young bulls), and a small bunch of commercial cattle. They do a whole lot of AI breeding. Mark was interested in raising some black baldies, but the eye thing had him pretty nervous. He found semen marketed by GENEX for a Herf bull named "Boyd Worldwide" (Kentucky). Young bull (2009) but with dark pigment around both eyes. He bred 15 or so of his commercial BA cows to that bull last winter, and the dozen or so cows that took all calved black babies with black masks from ears to an inch or more around the eyes -- every single one of them. This bull is pictured in a recent (maybe the most recent) hard-copy catalog; I imagine you could also find him on-line. You can only see one side of that bull in the pics, but he does have the dark pigmentation around both eyes.

Like I said -- just FYI. I saw all those calves this weekend.

 

[VLS_GUY]

Cathy,

Goggle eyed Herefords are easy to come by as most Hereford Breeders are selecting for eye pigmentation.When making baldies it is enough to pay attention to getting full pigmentation around the eyes. Generally enough bulls have the required pigmentation you can more or less select bulls on production traits and not on pigmentation per se.

 

[dun]

There is a difference between pigment around the eyes and having a ring around the eye. Pigment is the coloration of the eyelids not the face. I have seen goggle eyed calve that weren't fully pigmented.

 

[Stocker Steve]

There is a difference between pigment around the eyes and having a ring around the eye. Pigment is the coloration of the eyelids not the face. I have seen goggle eyed calve that weren't fully pigmented.

I like pigment, and select for it, but not all of our purchased cows have it.

We have some with "black eyes" (we usually name them after movie stars) but not the google ring around the eye. Is this what you call "fully pigmented"?

We also have a few with black eyes and a goggle ring on one side, but not the other.

 

[dun]

There is a difference between pigment around the eyes and having a ring around the eye. Pigment is the coloration of the eyelids not the face. I have seen goggle eyed calve that weren't fully pigmented.

I like pigment, and select for it, but not all of our purchased cows have it.

We have some with "black eyes" (we usually name them after movie stars) but not the google ring around the eye. Is this what you call "fully pigmented"?

We also have a few with black eyes and a goggle ring on one side, but not the other.

Pigment doesn;t alwasy extend to the hair, just the tissue being fully colored is considered pigmented.

 

[Lawson Farms]

Can anyone link pictures of both good and bad?

 

[dun]

Can anyone link pictures of both good and bad?

I could have but we sold all of the Herefords. Had perfect examples of both. One cow had total pigment around one eye and the other eye was pigmented except for about 1/4 inch. When you looked close you could see flys bunched up at the pink (non-pigmented) part.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

There is a difference between pigment around the eyes and having a ring around the eye. Pigment is the coloration of the eyelids not the face. I have seen goggle eyed calve that weren't fully pigmented.

I like pigment, and select for it, but not all of our purchased cows have it.

We have some with "black eyes" (we usually name them after movie stars) but not the google ring around the eye. Is this what you call "fully pigmented"?

We also have a few with black eyes and a goggle ring on one side, but not the other.

Pigment doesn;t alwasy extend to the hair, just the tissue being fully colored is considered pigmented.

As you know, Dun, I don't know much about this . . . . The bull has Herf red hair around both eyes, at least an inch around, but it's irregular, so there's more under the eye. He does NOT have a mask from ears through eyes. Can't tell by the pic what the actual eye looks like, but his ad says "Pigmentation." Like I said before, I was only passing along what I saw in the calves my bro-in-law got via this Herf bull and his commercial Angus girls, which were black masks from a point below the ears to all the way around both eyes.

 

[novatech]

Can anyone link pictures of both good and bad?

I could have but we sold all of the Herefords. Had perfect examples of both. One cow had total pigment around one eye and the other eye was pigmented except for about 1/4 inch. When you looked close you could see flys bunched up at the pink (non-pigmented) part.

Rocket222 posted a pic of a bull calf on another thread. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=67082&start=15 . On the second page.
Is this calf totally pigmented? Looks as though the upper lid is not.
I tried to move the pic over here but don't know how.

 

[VLS_GUY]

Getting goggles around the eyes is more important in Purebred herds than when you cross breed. When you crossbreed to a solid colored breed you tend to get rid of eye problems. Saying that if you want goggle eyed bulls they are out there if you want them. I find pigmented bulls are good enough to get rid of Hereford eye problems.

 

[VanC]

Some good information here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=68961&hilit=eyeset

 

[Stocker Steve]

Can anyone link pictures of both good and bad?

I could have but we sold all of the Herefords. Had perfect examples of both. One cow had total pigment around one eye and the other eye was pigmented except for about 1/4 inch. When you looked close you could see flys bunched up at the pink (non-pigmented) part.

Do you see an actual problems with un pigmented eyes if you vaccinate for pink eye ?

 

[dun]

Can anyone link pictures of both good and bad?

I could have but we sold all of the Herefords. Had perfect examples of both. One cow had total pigment around one eye and the other eye was pigmented except for about 1/4 inch. When you looked close you could see flys bunched up at the pink (non-pigmented) part.

Do you see an actual problems with un pigmented eyes if you vaccinate for pink eye ?

We don;t vaccinate for pink eye but we've never seen a difference between pigmented and non-pigmented eyes. We also have an agressive fly control program.