Hematoma?

[76 Bar]

Appreciate the clarification Murray. Was looking for a sizable lump but also thought I was seeing an odd hump starting at the withers and continuing for a foot or so. If that's indeed the case, if its hard its likely a skeletal deformity, if its decidedly soft probably a significant hematoma due to a bruising episode.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Our you bought a mutant freak hence the huge discount.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I don't remember that vaccination technic in the BQA hand book.
Yes, chronic calves can and do get needle sore, but that is no reason to routinely vaccinate cattle wrong. BQA or not, those vaccines are not designed to go behind the shoulder.
I alley vaccinate all the time. Cow, calves and every inbetween. Sub Q in the neck. That's where vaccinations go.

Sub Q is Sub Q. The reason for the neck area is apparently because of more blood flow there. Have had this discussion with several vets and their opinion is the same. Sub Q is Sub Q.

A lot of idiots are still giving injections and vaccinations in the rump " because you can't see a lump when given there".

Yeah, and I've seen good Ol' boy vets give Nuflor behind the ribs! Or the local vet that used to grind sulfa tabs in the blender then add water to make injectable sulfa. Just because you can doesn't mean that it's right.
Sub Q, so you always use a 5/8" 16ga needle? Unless you are tenting the hide anything longer will be a deeper injection than Sub Q.

I don't claim to know everything, but back in the glory days fifteen years ago I was averaging a thousand head feeders through the chute a month plus stock cows. Most of those feeders got at least 3 vaccines and an injectable wormer. I got real good real fast at not stacking vaccines and knowing which ones had to be on opposite sides of the neck to avoid bigger reactions.
It is our responsibility as producers to take the time to do it right every time, because the world is watching us. And don't think for a second that they aren't looking for reasons to convince the public that what we do is evil. Even though we know it is for the benefit of the animal. There is a reason that we have to get a VFD now to use feed grade antibiotics. Enough producers didn't fallow the labels and the NCBA, along with veterinarians, and nutritionists decided we better do something to self police this problem before the USDA bands these products all together.
Don't worry they want to ban injectables to. They just don't have enough ammunition yet to get it done, but they will if we give it to them.
When they mandate traceability at the sale barns then the packers will dictate how you care for your animals, and it will have a trickle down effect to the cow calf operations. Tyson fresh meats has already started this. You have to prove that you are BQA certified to sell fed cattle at barns that Tyson sends a buyer to.

I'll get off my soap box, but we have to do things correctly.

 

[gcreekrch]

Sub Q is Sub Q. The reason for the neck area is apparently because of more blood flow there. Have had this discussion with several vets and their opinion is the same. Sub Q is Sub Q.

A lot of idiots are still giving injections and vaccinations in the rump " because you can't see a lump when given there".

Yeah, and I've seen good Ol' boy vets give Nuflor behind the ribs! Or the local vet that used to grind sulfa tabs in the blender then add water to make injectable sulfa. Just because you can doesn't mean that it's right.
Sub Q, so you always use a 5/8" 16ga needle? Unless you are tenting the hide anything longer will be a deeper injection than Sub Q.

I don't claim to know everything, but back in the glory days fifteen years ago I was averaging a thousand head feeders through the chute a month plus stock cows. Most of those feeders got at least 3 vaccines and an injectable wormer. I got real good real fast at not stacking vaccines and knowing which ones had to be on opposite sides of the neck to avoid bigger reactions.
It is our responsibility as producers to take the time to do it right every time, because the world is watching us. And don't think for a second that they aren't looking for reasons to convince the public that what we do is evil. Even though we know it is for the benefit of the animal. There is a reason that we have to get a VFD now to use feed grade antibiotics. Enough producers didn't fallow the labels and the NCBA, along with veterinarians, and nutritionists decided we better do something to self police this problem before the USDA bands these products all together.
Don't worry they want to ban injectables to. They just don't have enough ammunition yet to get it done, but they will if we give it to them.
When they mandate traceability at the sale barns then the packers will dictate how you care for your animals, and it will have a trickle down effect to the cow calf operations. Tyson fresh meats has already started this. You have to prove that you are BQA certified to sell fed cattle at barns that Tyson sends a buyer to.

I'll get off my soap box, but we have to do things correctly.

I agree with you fully on this post but still maintain sub q is just that.

We just joined a program called Verified Beef Producer+. Passed the audit in flying colours. Main thing they are concerned with are withdrawal periods and vaccination programs. The payoff will be when our cattle end up in an approved plant we get an $18.00 per head kickback for the traceability. At least in Canada we do have a mandatory tagging system in place to attain that traceability.

 

[MurraysMutts]

No picture but the swelling appears to be going down.
Could be my eyes playing tricks tho...

Hes settling in a little. Seems to be ready when I feed him. Hes penned up seperate like all new animals I bring home. Not running for feed yet, but still..

 

[SBMF 2015]

Sub Q is Sub Q. The reason for the neck area is apparently because of more blood flow there. Have had this discussion with several vets and their opinion is the same. Sub Q is Sub Q.

A lot of idiots are still giving injections and vaccinations in the rump " because you can't see a lump when given there".

Yeah, and I've seen good Ol' boy vets give Nuflor behind the ribs! Or the local vet that used to grind sulfa tabs in the blender then add water to make injectable sulfa. Just because you can doesn't mean that it's right.
Sub Q, so you always use a 5/8" 16ga needle? Unless you are tenting the hide anything longer will be a deeper injection than Sub Q.

I don't claim to know everything, but back in the glory days fifteen years ago I was averaging a thousand head feeders through the chute a month plus stock cows. Most of those feeders got at least 3 vaccines and an injectable wormer. I got real good real fast at not stacking vaccines and knowing which ones had to be on opposite sides of the neck to avoid bigger reactions.
It is our responsibility as producers to take the time to do it right every time, because the world is watching us. And don't think for a second that they aren't looking for reasons to convince the public that what we do is evil. Even though we know it is for the benefit of the animal. There is a reason that we have to get a VFD now to use feed grade antibiotics. Enough producers didn't fallow the labels and the NCBA, along with veterinarians, and nutritionists decided we better do something to self police this problem before the USDA bands these products all together.
Don't worry they want to ban injectables to. They just don't have enough ammunition yet to get it done, but they will if we give it to them.
When they mandate traceability at the sale barns then the packers will dictate how you care for your animals, and it will have a trickle down effect to the cow calf operations. Tyson fresh meats has already started this. You have to prove that you are BQA certified to sell fed cattle at barns that Tyson sends a buyer to.

I'll get off my soap box, but we have to do things correctly.

Its coming here quick. Our problem is that the packers are not willing to pay a premium,they just won't buy your cattle if you don't comply. The trickle down effect is going to take time. The cow calf guys are not willing to spend extra money for traceability when they never had to before, but the packers will use the feedlot to try and force the cow calf guys to comply. It would be so much easier if the packers would pay a premium.

 

[MurraysMutts]

That large area has reduced in size significantly.
It's been a few days now and hes ALMOST running for feed. So hes settling in some too.
He came in with a big semi load of other steers.
I'm almost certain he got down and got stepped on.
The remaining lump is about the size of a big hoofprint.
We'll see how it goes.
I'm gonna try that benign neglect thing for a while longer here.

 

[MurraysMutts]

He has finally settled in enough I can get close up while he eats. He was kinda like a feral animal for a while there. Lol
Anyway, it's almost impossible to see in the picture!

 

[MurraysMutts]

So, we went to the vet today and worked him.
Vet says just leave it alone. It may not completely disappear but time will tell. No sample was taken from the area.

The area is firm. Not hard like bone. Not soft n squishy either. Good and firm like meat, I guess, is the best comparison. It has decreased in size some.

Eats well. Plenty vigorous. And hes put on 5 pounds since I got him. Been penned and fed cubes as well as mediocre hay.

 

[Lucky_P]

My guess... he's a Developmental Duplication homozygote. Not all of them end up with full sets of extra limbs hanging off... some may be as minimally affected as to only have a small, almost unnoticeable flap of skin.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.angus.org/pub/DD/DDFactSheet.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjGvYbZuZzoAhXJUt8KHTgmDeUQFjACegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw37V3qzOqru8ddQp4Q5RJ4E

 

[Lucky_P]

And, while subQ is subQ from an absorption/effectiveness standpoint, the reason BQA tenets require injections in the neck area is...if you're gonna end up with an abscess or tissue damage resulting from an injection, it won't be in a valuable cut of meat. Trim-out won't result in loss of so much valuable product.
And if, on that shackled, hanging carcass, an abscess is encountered during processing, the contents will be less likely to run down/contaminate the majority of the carcass.

 

[76 Bar]

Thanks for the suggestion that it might be DD Lucky_P. Hadn't considered that possibility as I (obviously mistakenly) thought it either manifested itself in embryonic death or additional appendages at birth. :tiphat:

 

[Katpau]

My guess... he's a Developmental Duplication homozygote. Not all of them end up with full sets of extra limbs hanging off... some may be as minimally affected as to only have a small, almost unnoticeable flap of skin.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.angus.org/pub/DD/DDFactSheet.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjGvYbZuZzoAhXJUt8KHTgmDeUQFjACegQIBhAC&usg=AOvVaw37V3qzOqru8ddQp4Q5RJ4E

I wondered the same thing when I saw the photos. There have been a number of animals confirmed to have inherited the defect from both parents, and who would be expected to have an extra limb, but who show no or just negligible signs. I saw two cows that were DDA (double recessive carriers) at a local ranch, and neither one displayed any defect.

 

[MurraysMutts]

And, while subQ is subQ from an absorption/effectiveness standpoint, the reason BQA tenets require injections in the neck area is...if you're gonna end up with an abscess or tissue damage resulting from an injection, it won't be in a valuable cut of meat. Trim-out won't result in loss of so much valuable product.
And if, on that shackled, hanging carcass, an abscess is encountered during processing, the contents will be less likely to run down/contaminate the majority of the carcass.

Very interesting...
Never entered my mind. With no known history on the animal he could've been like this his entire life.
Gotta get him calmed down a bit more and I bet he will feed out and make good dinner anyway huh?
My thoughts are to feed him, and eat him.
Saves me from slaughtering an animal I can maybe make a profit on...

 

[tallylittle]

I wish it's not something more serious. Better yet, let your Vet do the check up.

 

[reymitchel]

A hematoma is another name of a strong bruise, I trust everything will be okay

 

[MurraysMutts]

Hes slicked off pretty good. I think this pic shows it well. Kinda hunchbacked. Evidently I was wrong on the swelling going down. O no! Lol
Think he will eat well if I feed him and slaughter this fall?
Any ideas with a better pic?

Just noticed...
Theres my bottle calf, Seven, babysitting the calves. Lol

 

[MurraysMutts]

Just updating...
Looks like he might make burger time on the 8th

 

[MurraysMutts]

No burger for me.
Someone wanted him more than i.
Had him on grass this whole time, made a nickel.
I guess it worked out this time!