Heifers not settling what does the crew say?

[hicky214]

Ok so first off I have never messed with heifers If so I bought them Bred. It was a family thing they just never fooled with heifers. So I kept 8 good ones and in June I put the first 6 that were all 15 Months with the bull and few weeks back I checked them all Preg :clap: I figured they were as they never came back in heat after the first heat, except one and she got bred on her second heat. Well...so about the other two.

They were a little younger so they did not go out with bull until Aug. 4th. I did lute them then 10 days later I luted again then. Before I took them. I saw bull with them In August, then on Sept 21, I watched bull breed them. So was hoping all was good well yesterday and today both these two are back in heat. Watched bull mount one yesterday and Dad called and said other was in heat today. Ughhhh. I know it happens that not all will breed, but its just weird its these 2 that grew up with other 6 wont settle They came to bull together, are in heat together, totally diff backgrounds etc. So I would really hate to give up on them as they are beautiful heifers. Great BCS, Mineral program etc. I was blaming the summer temp etc but this is the third breeding. How long do you guys give them and any advice would be great. I doubt its a bull issue as he is not having a problem with the rest of the cows. Just weird how its both of them.

 

[Rafter S]

My first thought was to advise you to sell the heifers, but it occurred to me that the bull could have gone bad after breeding the older heifers. You might get a BSE done on him. If he's still good, then sell the heifers.

 

[hicky214]

Bull has bred cows in same time as he did these younger heifers. The cows have not come back in heat Im assuming they are bred. I bought this bull for these heifers but he's breeding my cows also. I don't pull the bull

 

[bse]

If you gave them a shot of lute day 1 why did you lute again 10 days later? If they bred with first shot you turned around and knocked it out..
Heat will affect the bull, not sure what it was like there in August but way to hot here, could be part of it, did you do a BSE on the bull? Or just assuming the early ones are bred, I'd check the bull then make sure the early heifers are bred then go from there.

 

[hicky214]

Let me clear it up a little.

Per my Vet best way for lute to be given to heifers to synch them at same time is to give a shot of lute wait 10 days then give another shot then that day turn them out with bull. That I did with first 6 and they are confirmed bred. I also did that with the last 2.... They are not bred they are in heat today. This is a 23 month old bull that so far has been great and he's with cows and heifers. Cows haven't had any issues that I have seen as I note when he is with everyone. I have not had a BSE on bull bc cows aren't having issues to my knowledge

 

[bse]

Im no vet, but I don't think thats how you use lute to sync cattle, giving the shot on day 1 usually 50 to 60 percent will cycle, then in 10 days you give another shot to the ones that didn't cycle. If was gonna use lute to turn 2 out with the bull id give first shot and let them go, if the cycled after the first shot you've wasted a cycle waiting to give the second shot. iMO

We're they the later calves out of a group making them that much younger? Could be a fertility issue in the later calving cows.
Guess it comes down to how much you like them and are they gonna be out of sync with everything else? Sounds like the bull is taking care of business, but you just never know for sure without the test.

 

[hicky214]

Thanks guys, I was watching bull this evening as he was with one heifer and a cow that came in today. I did find a vet thats over an hour away that will Do the BSE if needed. The only cows he didnt settle were a couple dead in the niddle of summer and after second time seems they settled. I have run multiple preg checks to make sure he was fertile etc all good so far. We did go through a draught with zero rain from july until sep so im going to give him another month and see if these cows and heifers settle hes with now. The forage is great right now and its cooling down. Ill see if this helps him-them. I really like this bull and heifers but if something isnt getting bred we will nake changes. Hope all goes well. Thanks again

 

[Air gator]

Depending on where you live it could be that your heifers are low on selenium.
I had cows that I would A.I. and would not take.
When I gave them an injection of Mu-Se, they settled.
You have to get a prescription for Mu-se or use multimin...the blue stuff.
Typical minerals you add to feed don't have enough selenium.
I would rather spend the money on some selenium than get rid of heifers I liked.
I live in Florida.
Good luck.

 

[Lucky_P]

hicky,
The two doses of prostaglandin 10-11 days apart is for really tight synching for AI. bse is right, you may have knocked out some of those that bred on the first cycle.
If I were doing it that way, I'd give the first dose, then breed the ones in heat; then give the second dose, 5-10 days later, to any that didn't cycle on the first and breed the 'stragglers'.

If you're 'determined' to give two doses of prostaglandin for natural service... give 'em 5 days apart... that way the heifers that cycle and breed after the first shot will probably not be aborted by the second, as their CL will probably not be at the point that the prostaglandins will lyse it. Breedings 5 days apart are still gonna deliver in a pretty tight window... some will go early, some later.

 

[gizmom]

My 2 cents:

1. August is the worst time to try to get cattle bred just to hot and although the bull may be trying there is a very good chance that he is shooting blanks.

2. Late calves are usually late because the dam is not highly maternal, that is why it is always recommended to retain heifers out of the first calves born, you insure that your retaining heifers out of maternal type cows.

Good luck, hope they settled for you but those two items in your description jumped out at me.

gizmom

 

[Supa Dexta]

Keeping them away from the bull until both shots are given will solve the -bred on the first shot- problem. But depending on numbers, you could have a bunch all come in at once and wear the poor bull out, missing some.

 

[hicky214]

hicky,
The two doses of prostaglandin 10-11 days apart is for really tight synching for AI. bse is right, you may have knocked out some of those that bred on the first cycle.
If I were doing it that way, I'd give the first dose, then breed the ones in heat; then give the second dose, 5-10 days later, to any that didn't cycle on the first and breed the 'stragglers'.

If you're 'determined' to give two doses of prostaglandin for natural service... give 'em 5 days apart... that way the heifers that cycle and breed after the first shot will probably not be aborted by the second, as their CL will probably not be at the point that the prostaglandins will lyse it. Breedings 5 days apart are still gonna deliver in a pretty tight window... some will go early, some later.

The shots 10 days apart were advised by my vet. The heifers were not with the bull until the last lute shot, there was no way the second one kicked out a calf. They had never been with a bull. Vet advised to do it 10 days apart im not sure why but she even wrote it on the lute box.

 

[hicky214]

I greatly appreciate all of your help. Im not so sure my vet is the best at breeding measures.

 

[Nesikep]

If you can, and haven't done it before, getting a mineral panel done on a couple animals in the herd can tell you if the mineral program you have is doing it's job... Around here we were really low on Phosphorus, Copper, and Selenium, and had a lot of problems with high producing cows coming up open or late. Now that I have a better mineral program I have less problems.

 

[Lucky_P]

Hicky,
She just didn't think it through. The old 2-shot prostaglandin thing is the one of the first synch protocols that came down the pike... still works pretty decently, if you're shooting for a tight AI breeding window. But for natural service, I wouldn't necessarily do it that way.

Giving the two shots 10 days apart - if they're already cycling - WILL pretty well bring 'em all into heat at the same time...then you get into "Can the bull handle X number of cows/heifers all coming into heat over a 2-3 day period and get 'em all bred?"
But, if you give two doses 5 days apart, some will cycle in after the first dose, the bull breeds them, then when you give the second dose 5 days later (if you weren't watching to see which ones got bred), the remainder will come in - and the first-breds will only be 2-3 days out from breeding, so won't have a functional CL for the prostaglandin to knock out, and won't be aborted. If you were watching and saw some get bred on the first cycle...don't bother dosing them again.

 

[hicky214]

Hicky,
She just didn't think it through. The old 2-shot prostaglandin thing is the one of the first synch protocols that came down the pike... still works pretty decently, if you're shooting for a tight AI breeding window. But for natural service, I wouldn't necessarily do it that way.

Giving the two shots 10 days apart - if they're already cycling - WILL pretty well bring 'em all into heat at the same time...then you get into "Can the bull handle X number of cows/heifers all coming into heat over a 2-3 day period and get 'em all bred?"
But, if you give two doses 5 days apart, some will cycle in after the first dose, the bull breeds them, then when you give the second dose 5 days later (if you weren't watching to see which ones got bred), the remainder will come in - and the first-breds will only be 2-3 days out from breeding, so won't have a functional CL for the prostaglandin to knock out, and won't be aborted. If you were watching and saw some get bred on the first cycle...don't bother dosing them again.

Thanks a lot Lucky I greatly appreciate your knowledge to the boards

 

[Lucky_P]

We all fall into a routine. That 10-11 day 2-shot deal is deeply ingrained in most folks' thought processes. But sometimes you have to think 'outside of the box' - something that *I* am not necessarily noted for.
But... the 5-day thing for natural service was discussed at a continuing education meeting I went to last week... and it made me go.."Hmmm. Why didn't I think of that?"

 

[coachg]

I have found that heavier/ fleshier heifers cycle sooner than their lighter mates and settle quicker also. Were these last two lighter than the other 6 since they were younger ?

 

[hicky214]

No basically same weight