having to stick my hand down a calves throat

[suzorse]

this was Thursday my posts from Keeping a Family Cow
went up and fed the steers and my little Magnolia was drooling
and had some hay hanging out her mouth,she wanted the grain I put out for the group but was not eating, so I grabbed her halter
and reached in her mouth, and ended up pulling out 3 to 4 large hand fulls of wadded up hay that was stuck in the back of her
mouth and throat nasty stuff :mrgreen: , and I did not even get bit, I was as far back as I could get my hand in, then she went over and started scarfing her grain, I have been worried about them as last week when I went up to feed grain,and throw hay and do water
I found my little Jersey Bull calf dead (have no clue)
Suzanne
yesterday
well I have had to clear Magnolias throat every day, took her to the vet yesterday,and he said he could not find anything at that time, if she was older he would suspect teeth problems, she had been clear for 24hrs so he said to watch her,well in the afternoon she was plugged again, you clear it and she goes right back to eating, well had to clear her again this morning, she is loosing weight and is not her normal spunky self since this started, what I am clearing looks well chewed so could this be cud she is bringing up and it is getting stuck going back down,
and any ideas on if I should feed her soaked feed till I can take her back to the vet on tuesday like alfalfa pellets and beet pulp
I am so worried about her
Suzanne

and today
I have been clearing it about every hour or so now

well I cleared her throat at midnight and moved her to a pen,where there is nothing to snack on,and gave her some fresh water and soaked beet pulp alfalfa pellet mix with some all stock mixed in the top layer, I have had to clear her throat 3 times so far today,raked her little pen good,went to the vet and he put her on 3cc banamine for 3 days and 19cc of Nuflor
it is cud that she is bring up and it is getting stuck before it gets to her mouth, as what I am pulling out is chewed hay not beet pulp and alfalfa pellet powder, she has had no hay for 24hrs, and she dose have a lump under her throat latch, so it is at the back of her tongue area into her throat,which is beyond my reach, I already go past my wrist,and am wearing latex gloves,as the 2d time I had to go in,I scraped my little finger good on her teeth, that is all I have to report at this time, she is only around 300lbs so is small
and when I was giving her her shots,the dog was laying under her :shock: :help: and did not get stept on, my vet is kind of stumped on this one
the lump area is below her jaw area this is on a Jersey heifer around 6 months old
Suzanne

 

[Lucky_P]

Top two rule-outs on my list: Botulism, Rabies. Could be some other malady, but...
If she dies, you need to have her brain tested for Rabies - especially since you've been sticking your hand in her mouth.

 

[suzorse]

vet dose not think rabies, at first maybe but not now, it is not food going down it is cud coming back
up,she has been on no hay for 36 hrs and at 330 yesterday was the last time I had to clear her throat
she is drinking and scarfing up her ground food with no problems,she is getting probiotics also
she has my vet stumped as he has never seen this in 30 years, he said to try her back on hay in a couple days, getting ready to go give her dose of banamine for the day,
Suzanne
if I had not known it was a mouth and throat full of food I would never of stuck my hand in, I had just opened and fed a fine grassy hay the night before for the first time

 

[wbvs58]

Pull her tongue out to the side, then see how well she pulls it back in.
Ken

 

[kenny thomas]

Pull her tongue out to the side, then see how well she pulls it back in.
Ken

Ken, what are you thinking? I have never seen that done.

 

[suzorse]

I will try that and see,good thing she is little and halter broke
Suzanne

 

[Roadapple]

Did your vet check for wooden tongue? Does she chew slowly? Is her tongue swollen at the base?

 

[suzorse]

he took her temp and every thing seemed normal, he wanted to know if she had slober at any other time ,which the answer was no ,only when the cud was stuck,no cough ,no temp,no snot only normal cow drips, her tongue goes back in quicker than snot! her voice box is fine she mooed when I brought the other heifer home,her burps smell normal,rumen sounds and it is moving all normal
normal plops,she dose dip when I run my hand down her back,but is not acting like she hurts,I could not tell if the back of her tongue was swollen,as I have never had to put my hand down a cows throat berore. Vet ran his hand down her neck and did not feel anything ,so I really do not know what all he was checking for. Suzanne

 

[jilleroo]

We had one like that recently Suzorse, her cheeks were packed full. We unblocked her a few times - and yes, it was her cud, not fresh chewed feed. Sometimes you see blocks of cud around watering points where they've managed to get it out of their mouth too.
We also had a big charolais bull that could not cud cottonseed. He could eat it okay but they when he brought it back up, it would chock up his cheeks and right down his throat. Had to put a polystick through his mouth and rake it all out by hand ( a really putrid mess) and then stick a hose down his neck (no water running) to unplug him. Had to do it three or four times over a few days before he got rid of all the offending CS from his stomach. Luckily he was very quiet - we never fed him CS again and had him another 10 years.
Don't panic about it, just watch and find out what it is she can't tolerate.

 

[wbvs58]

The tongue, sometimes with a neurotoxin paralysing things they won't have good control over swollowing and their tongue eg with snakebite and as Lucky suggested botulism. When you pull it out it stays out for quite a while.
As Jilleroo suggested don't panic, the tincture of time is a great healer, even in spite of us interferring with the process.
Ken

 

[alisonb]

Perhaps she has some kind of blockage preventing coarser feed (hay) from entering the rumen, something like a plastic bag or baling twine etc?

 

[suzorse]

alisonb how would I know if that is the problem? she has gained the weight back that she had started to loose and is perky and hoping I will let her out of her small pen, we will start her back on small amounts of hay tomarrow and see thanks for everyones help
Suzanne

 

[alisonb]

If it is an obstruction/disorder of the intestines there is usually an absence of feces or they are watery. You will hear a splashing noice from the abdomen, the abdomen will also be distended(left side). Mucous membranes could also be pale. An EXLAP can be done by a vet if the animal shows these symptoms.
You did say that the animal is picking up weight and that it's feces are normal, perhaps she had a temporary blockage? If it continues chat to your vet. Good luck with her.

 

[suzorse]

well I gave her a big double handfull of hay when I got home from work, alfalfa/grass mix, and she tore right in to it, then I went out an hour later to check on her and the cow that is do to calve
and she was laying there chewing her cud, then jumped right up to get her bucket of mush , I will give her another double handfull later, and just keep a close eye on her, this is her when I brought her home in Sept Suzanne

 

[HomePlaceAngus]

Fingers are crossed X. Hope she is on the mend. Good luck :tiphat:

 

[leigh12354]

Glad to hear your calf is on the mend. Hope she stays that way. Did the beet pulp do any good through all this? Or did it even go down?

 

[suzorse]

Magnolia is doing fine, no problems since I put her back on hay,she is now out with the group doing good thanks for everyones help , she could swallow fine it was her cud coming back up that was causing problems , the beet pulp helped as she did not need to bring it back up as cud Suzanne

 

[Nesikep]

I would perhaps talk to the vet and see if you're in a very iodine deficient area, I'm thinking perhaps something to do with a goiter/thyroid... though you said she doesn't have any lumps... Just a thought??

 

[leigh12354]

I'm glad to hear the beet pulp did some good. I have heard a lot of bad opinions on it. So all that was false. Better than that its great to hear the calf is doing great and out and about.