Hail to the Non-Creep Feeder

[George Monk]

It seems to me that many producers that don't creep feed feel they are superior to those that would even consider such a rediculas concept. They seem to wear the idea as a badge of honor. Mntman summed up the position of most of the talk on this board quite quickly.
Yet I really don't understand the complete disregard of creep feeding. Aren't we in the business of putting pounds of meat across the scales? Shouldn't we strive to get the greatest performance out of our genetics that we can? Don't we want to get our cattle to market as quickly and as economically as we can.
I have heard several disadvantages listed. Really the only one that holds any validity is economics, even then find cheaper feed sources. A friend of mine uses home grown oats and corn mixed with distillers grain and some minerals. Others that are listed..."calves may show too much finish"-hey be a herdsman and adjust the feed so that your calves don't get fleshy, throw in another bale of hay per ton...."distortion of production records" - okay the producer with 1000 pound weanings has distorded the production ability of the mother but then aren't those cattle going to show the flesh that is not going to bring top dollar or do we go ahead and pay more money for big bulls, most of us do....some calves eat while others don't, who cares as long as they are gaining. This may really be an argument for creep feeding as those that need additional nutrients can get it.....heifers can get to fat - again don't we have a responsibility to watch our cattle, you wouldn't want a steer putting on fat at 800# either.
No offense to any of the people who weigh (pun intended) in on this topic. It just seems to me that management is always left out of the discussion. Feeding under any circumstances doesn't mean continously dumping tons of feed into a self feeder.
I have listened intently to this topic and respect the input of mntman and dun and Doc Harris. I mean no disrespect as I am a beginner to cattle. I guess most of my thoughts come from the progressive approach I had as a hog farmer. If I didn't finish a hog in 6 months I did some serious soul searching.
George

 

[BRG]

I have nothing against a commercial man creeping, you are right, you sell cattle by the lbs, and why not get as many lbs you can out of each cow.

I know alot of people do it when we are in drought conditions to save on the grass. This is another great reason to do it.

I do not think that seedstock producers should do it unless they are in something like a drought, or if the calves are all embryo calves and the recip cows don't have enough milk.

My only real gripe about creeping is how do you know if your cows are milking or if the calves are doing it on the creep alone. This is one reason why I feel seedstock producers should not be creeping. It doesn't tell the whole story. A bull calf that weaned heavy might have eaten double the amount of creep but probably would have starved on the cow alone. I sure don't want my customers to keep replacements out of a bull like this.

But if you are a commercialman/woman and the pastures work for creeping, I say creep, just don't get them to fleshy, otherwise the feeders won't like your cattle and won't come looking for them again.

 

[BA]

Well said BRG, I couldn't agree more.

 

[mtnman]

Nothing wrong with a commercial man using every single tool at his/her disposal to help them make more money.

Go for it.

Purebred production is a different deal.

mtnman

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Nothing wrong with a commercial man using every single tool at his/her disposal to help them make more money.

Go for it.

Purebred production is a different deal.

mtnman

how is it a different deal i want my herd sire prospect to make too weaning on momas milk and grass

 

[dun]

Nothing wrong with a commercial man using every single tool at his/her disposal to help them make more money.

Go for it.

Purebred production is a different deal.

mtnman

how is it a different deal i want my herd sire prospect to make too weaning on momas milk and grass

And I want my commercail heifers to show what htey can do in the real world and how their mothers produce. If every calf went to the feedlot creep might be a usuable tool, they don;t so it isn;t for us.

dun

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Nothing wrong with a commercial man using every single tool at his/her disposal to help them make more money.

Go for it.

Purebred production is a different deal.

mtnman

how is it a different deal i want my herd sire prospect to make too weaning on momas milk and grass

And I want my commercail heifers to show what htey can do in the real world and how their mothers produce. If every calf went to the feedlot creep might be a usuable tool, they don;t so it isn;t for us.

dun

thats the thing the average commercial man raises a calf on moma around six months if they cant get there on momas milk shes gone, i sure dont want a bull that came from a poor milking cow. unless maybe to use as a terminal sire

 

[S.R.R.]

If you can creep feed your terminal calves and get enough lbs added on them that you can end up ahead on sale day then great! The problem comes in when you creep feed your bulls and or replacement heifers. Like others have said I want cattle that work in the real world with grass, minerals and good water.

 

[andybob]

If I were raising commercial cattle, I would certainly creep feed, not only for the weight gain, but feeding at this stage helps toward attaining good grades later. Research shows a correlation between early feeding and marbling in the finished steer. My low maintenance stud cattle must perform on grazing and minerals, that is what I am producing for the commercial breeders.

 

[mtnman]

We are saying the same thing alacowman and dun.

I would consider creeping replacement heifers a net money loser for commercial guys, so I wouldn't do it.

When I said purebred production is a different deal, I was saying that purebred guys shouldn't creep feed.

mtnman

 

[BA]

You were right on track Mntnman. You are catching heck for no reason, I think most every one is in agreement here.

 

[mnmtranching]

I would say if you got good grass, good cows why creep?

On the other hand drought, poor grass, cows losing weight, you got to sell calves, creep feed, or wean the calves and feed them, but you can't just leave them on the cows.

mnmt

 

[gertfan]

we raise commercial cows and our son also has 3 purebred heifers, we don't use a creep feeder for any of them. We get the majority of our calves in early spring and wean them in late dec/jan. we feed them every day so much per calf, they learn to eat.
A friend of ours who is big in club calves tells us we need a creep feeder for our son's star 5 bull who is 3 months old, yet he gets right in there and eats with his mom and other heifers. I don't know what the right thing is.
I guess everyone has there own ideas on what is right.

 

[purecountry]

Pardon me for playing Devil's Advocate on this one, but the theory that creep-feeding gives a false sense of an animals performance is true. A creep-fed calf certainly will gain more than one ONLY on grass and milk.

HOWEVER, is all grass created equal? No. Some calves are reared on milk and alfalfa pastures, while others are reared on milk and prairie wool. One rancher may have 750lb weaning weights and another 550lbs, both from "forage", BUT what kind of forage was it? This could be just as much of a wool-over-the-eyes trick as the creep-feeding ration. My point is simply, don't knock the creep-feeding rations like they're the only misrepresentation. There's a pile of superficial info in this industry, and I have to say that Monk has a point when he says it should come back to management and good judgement.

If you see a 900-1000lb weaning weight at 200 days of age, claiming to be from milk and grass, it's BULL$H!T. Trust me. It just don't happen like that.

BTW, we don't creep anything, and never will. My apologies for being a turd-disturbing, hive-kicker.

 

[S.R.R.]

turd-disturbing, hive-kicker, :lol: you make a good point.

 

[Brandonm2]

I agree with Mntman. IF in your commercial operation, creep feeding calves pencils out due to lack of availability of forage and low grain prices; then do it; BUT I think we have a real problem with seedstock producers creep feeding their calf crop, supplementing their cows with grain year round, raising their bulls in a drylot and feeding their heifers almost exclusively out of a sack; then selling "herd bulls" to a commercial guy who expects his cows to make it on grass. Those genetics MIGHT work there and they might not; but nobody really knows because they certainly weren't selected for that environment.

 

[Wewild]

We always feed our retained heifers to help them along.

Whether it be better forage or something out of a sack.

Never had a problem with them not doing their job when the time came.

Might have something to do with the degree you feed .... i don't no?

 

[Brandonm2]

I think everybody has the heifers on some grain or on the ryegrass, alfalfa, corn residues, the clover, the best hay, and/or whatever you have got that will get them the nutrition they need to grow and breed; my comment was "feeding their heifers almost exclusively out of a sack" referring to some people's practice of feeding replacement heifers at a level approaching that of a fattened show heifer is NOT really a great plan for measuring the heifer's ability to forage. I never said that she WON"T make a good cow (I don't know); but I do think some people's program is NOT pushing their cows enough for an honest evaluation of which cows should be the heifer mamas and which should not be continued. I hate being the naysayer; but some genetics MAY (I didn't say "definitely will")be headed towards a train wreck if all that cheap grain we have gotten accustomed too ever goes away.

 

[dun]

I still don;t agree with the concept of feeding heifers better then the cow herd. We never have and until this year I can;t remember when the last heifer (first calver) didn;t breed back on schedule. The one that didn;t this year was a bought heifer and has alwasy been rough coated from I assume, the fescue since she came from up north. This year she's raising a dandy calf but is still rough coated, losing condition and hasn;t cycled yet. She's not keeping up her end of the bargain so she'll be heading down the road come weaning time. Registered cow, great genetics, just don;t work in our environement.

dun

 

[Wewild]

Nothing you said has any thing to do with what I said.

It is obvious that you can't make an animal dependent on sack feed.