Had a nice thing happen the other day...

[Frankie]

I already knew what an "arms length transaction" is. Apparently you don't. Read the definitions. If you provide anything directly to the consumer, you're not doing an "arm's length transaction". :roll:

Per your definitions that you provided show me where any anything provided directly to the consumer is not an arm's length transaction?

I did provide definitions. You apparently didn't bother to read them.

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder about your other claims here. But, hey, it's the internet. I mean, I really have trouble with your claim that you show every customer the daily price for dressed beef. Not that you wouldn't do that, but I just don't think the consumer cares. If they're going to the trouble to buy speciality beef, they're not likely to be to concerned with paying more than supermarket prices.

Actually my cattle are better than other people's cattle. And I've got the papers to prove it.

Yes, packer margins are thin. But does that make it ok for you to bash SRBeef's program without having a clue as to his expenses, genetics, etc? I don't think so. And what business is it of yours if he makes a buck or two? IMO, calling him names is rude and says more about you than it does about him.

 

[options]

You didn't answer my question. At what point does the price become unethical in your mind? At the point where he is selling gut fill cattle for 65% of market value

George

At the point where a person sells gut filled live fed cattle at 65% above market value.

 

[options]

Wow, thats a lot of calves to buy, how do you keep track of which ones had what shots or implants before you bought them, how are you able to tell your customers which bull and cow their beef came from? How are you able to tell your customers what those 300-700 calves have been fed before you bought them? How were all those calves raised and handled, did you go to every farm and see what kind of conditions they were raised in?

It is called record keeping start selling cattle into federally inspected plants where they perform residue testing. As far as what they ate I can only tell them what I have been told by the people who sold them. That is starting to scare me cause it seems many people aren't real honest.

 

[options]

I already knew what an "arms length transaction" is. Apparently you don't. Read the definitions. If you provide anything directly to the consumer, you're not doing an "arm's length transaction". :roll:

Per your definitions that you provided show me where any anything provided directly to the consumer is not an arm's length transaction?

I did provide definitions. You apparently didn't bother to read them.

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder about your other claims here. But, hey, it's the internet. I mean, I really have trouble with your claim that you show every customer the daily price for dressed beef. Not that you wouldn't do that, but I just don't think the consumer cares. If they're going to the trouble to buy speciality beef, they're not likely to be to concerned with paying more than supermarket prices.

Actually my cattle are better than other people's cattle. And I've got the papers to prove it.

Yes, packer margins are thin. But does that make it ok for you to bash SRBeef's program without having a clue as to his expenses, genetics, etc? I don't think so. And what business is it of yours if he makes a buck or two? IMO, calling him names is rude and says more about you than it does about him.

Please show me Per your definitions that you provided where any anything provided directly to the consumer is not an arm's length transaction?

 

[options]

Frankie I have not ever called anyone names have, I stated I see certain character traits in the way Jim does business. Name calling I have not done. If saying someone is greedy is considered name calling you are a hypocrite you just did it as well.

 

[Herefords.US]

George if you sold that 6 month old show heifer for $1500 knowing they were buying it for slaughter you should be ashamed of yourself. Coyler and Upstream should be shot for charging that much for slaughter heifers. Oh wait they are not slaughter animals are they? George my opinion of you has fallen dramatically. Comparing fed cattle to show and breeding heifers.

Show heifers or freezer beef - we're still talking about items that have supply and demand. SRBeef and many other folks have figured out a way to obtain "added value" for the products they produce. As long as they don't misrepresent their product, and I certainly haven't seen any evidence that SRBeef has done this, then ANY value that they obtain over "market value" isn't received unethically, in MNTBHO.

Ultimately, it is up to the consumer whether they choose to pay for it. And it is not up to you or me to make that decision for anyone else, only ourselves.

George

 

[Frankie]

Please show me Per your definitions that you provided where any anything provided directly to the consumer is not an arm's length transaction?

From the definitions above:

An arm's length transaction involves the buying and selling of goods, services, properties, or stocks between two parties that are completely separate from one another....

If you're talking directly to the consumer, providing price information, cuts of beef, genetics, pounds, cost of production, cost of processing, whatever, you're not at "arm's length."

Now that you're concerned that the cattle you buy are not as advertised to you, do you understand that some consumers think SRBeef's beef, from cattle that he raised, knows genetics, knows feed, knows management, is worth more?

 

[options]

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder about your other claims here. But, hey, it's the internet. I mean, I really have trouble with your claim that you show every customer the daily price for dressed beef. Not that you wouldn't do that, but I just don't think the consumer cares. If they're going to the trouble to buy speciality beef, they're not likely to be to concerned with paying more than supermarket prices.

The price is printed in the local paper if they didn't see it there I provide a copy of the National Daily Beef and Cattle summary. It really isn't that much work to run a paper off the computer I know some will want to charge a couple $100 more for it but I don't.

 

[LimiMan]

how much does it cost to feed one out? what do you feed them?

 

[options]

Please show me Per your definitions that you provided where any anything provided directly to the consumer is not an arm's length transaction?

From the definitions above:

An arm's length transaction involves the buying and selling of goods, services, properties, or stocks between two parties that are completely separate from one another....

If you're talking directly to the consumer, providing price information, cuts of beef, genetics, pounds, cost of production, cost of processing, whatever, you're not at "arm's length."

Now that you're concerned that the cattle you buy are not as advertised to you, do you understand that some consumers think SRBeef's beef, from cattle that he raised, knows genetics, knows feed, knows management, is worth more?

Come on Frankie still not seeing where selling directly to the consumer is not a arm's length transaction try again.

 

[options]

how much does it cost to feed one out? what do you feed them?

Like I'm telling you whats in my rations. $.052 per pound

 

[options]

George if you sold that 6 month old show heifer for $1500 knowing they were buying it for slaughter you should be ashamed of yourself. Coyler and Upstream should be shot for charging that much for slaughter heifers. Oh wait they are not slaughter animals are they? George my opinion of you has fallen dramatically. Comparing fed cattle to show and breeding heifers.

Show heifers or freezer beef - we're still talking about items that have supply and demand. SRBeef and many other folks have figured out a way to obtain "added value" for the products they produce. As long as they don't misrepresent their product, and I certainly haven't seen any evidence that SRBeef has done this, then ANY value that they obtain over "market value" isn't received unethically, in MNTBHO.

Ultimately, it is up to the consumer whether they choose to pay for it. And it is not up to you or me to make that decision for anyone else, only ourselves.

George

George like I said my opinion of you has fallen dramatically. You know better than to compare breeding stock to fed cattle. Breeding age heifers have more than one use fed cattle do not.

 

[Frankie]

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder about your other claims here. But, hey, it's the internet. I mean, I really have trouble with your claim that you show every customer the daily price for dressed beef. Not that you wouldn't do that, but I just don't think the consumer cares. If they're going to the trouble to buy speciality beef, they're not likely to be to concerned with paying more than supermarket prices.

The price is printed in the local paper if they didn't see it there I provide a copy of the National Daily Beef and Cattle summary. It really isn't that much work to run a paper off the computer I know some will want to charge a couple $100 more for it but I don't.

Whether you charge them or not, if you are providing customers with the info you claim, then it's not an "arms length" transaction.

I guess, technically, you haven't called SRBeef names. My apologies.

 

[Frankie]

Come on Frankie still not seeing where selling directly to the consumer is not a arm's length transaction try again.

Don't have to try again. The definition says it all. You know you're wrong and so does everyone else reading this thread. So that throws everything else you said into question.

 

[options]

Now that you're concerned that the cattle you buy are not as advertised to you, do you understand that some consumers think SRBeef's beef, from cattle that he raised, knows genetics, knows feed, knows management, is worth more?

Where did SRBeef's cattle come from? what about his genetics? Did he know how his cattle were fed prior to him getting them? Did he know about thier management before he got them? I'm certain Jim was not a passenger on the ark so lets face it he only knows what others told him about his cattle before he got them as well?

 

[options]

Come on Frankie still not seeing where selling directly to the consumer is not a arm's length transaction try again.

I'm not going to try again. The definition says it all. You know you're wrong and so does everyone else reading this thread. So that throws everything else you said into question.

Poor Frankie, anyway Frankie I am still not seeing where selling directly to the consumer is not a arm's length transaction try again

 

[options]

If you're talking directly to the consumer, providing price information, cuts of beef, genetics, pounds, cost of production, cost of processing, whatever, you're not at "arm's length."

Whether I provide them the daily dressed beef price or they read it in the paper I make sure they are aware of the market value. Both parties are aware of the market value of the product being sold. Arm's length transaction.

 

[Herefords.US]

George like I said my opinion of you has fallen dramatically. You know better than to compare breeding stock to fed cattle. Breeding age heifers have more than one use fed cattle do not.

I stand up for what I consider is right and just let people's opinions of me fall where they may, options. I'm too old and set in my ways to change much. Personally, I think spending $200 or more to see a football game or concert in person is insane, but I certainly don't denigrate the promoter for getting as much as he can get from the market.

Breeding heifers, freezer beef, or concert tickets - we're still talking supply, demand, and promotion. You're just too close to this particular subject - or too stubborn - to see that it's really all the same.

George

 

[Frankie]

Now that you're concerned that the cattle you buy are not as advertised to you, do you understand that some consumers think SRBeef's beef, from cattle that he raised, knows genetics, knows feed, knows management, is worth more?

Where did SRBeef's cattle come from? what about his genetics? Did he know how his cattle were fed prior to him getting them? Did he know about thier management before he got them? I'm certain Jim was not a passenger on the ark so lets face it he only knows what others told him about his cattle before he got them as well?

He said

...want it all to be homegrown under my care

That's something your meat does not provide. Some people think it's worth extra$$$. I buy our beef at the supermarket or the local meat store. Don't have a clue about genetics, but do buy Choice grade beef. And I pay less for it than I would for SRBeef's.

Where his cattle came from isn't important. The customers aren't buying his cattle, they're buying meat from their calves, born and raised under his management. Each generation he'll know more about the cows, calves, and the meat they produce.

 

[options]

Now that you're concerned that the cattle you buy are not as advertised to you, do you understand that some consumers think SRBeef's beef, from cattle that he raised, knows genetics, knows feed, knows management, is worth more?

Where did SRBeef's cattle come from? what about his genetics? Did he know how his cattle were fed prior to him getting them? Did he know about thier management before he got them? I'm certain Jim was not a passenger on the ark so lets face it he only knows what others told him about his cattle before he got them as well?

He said

...want it all to be homegrown under my care

That's something your meat does not provide. Some people think it's worth extra$$$. I buy our beef at the supermarket or the local meat store. Don't have a clue about genetics, but do buy Choice grade beef. And I pay less for it than I would for SRBeef's.

Where his cattle came from isn't important. The customers aren't buying his cattle, they're buying meat from their calves, born and raised under his management. Each generation he'll know more about the cows, calves, and the meat they produce.

Well I guees the key word is want he wants it to be all homegrown and it is not. His beef is no different from anybody else who sells beef. Keep trying Frankie sometime you might find something that doesn't get shot out of the sky so fast.