Had a nice thing happen the other day...

[VanC]

I guess if it works good enough and everyone is happy continue doing it. A selling price 50% above actual value of the animal in my opinion is not a fair price but it is your beef and not mine what I think doesn't matter. Taking advantage of my own customers is not something I would do just because I can.

You said these things on page 2 of this thread, yet you go on to accuse SRBeef and others of being dishonest. Which is it? Were you lying when you said these things?

Also, you've said a number of times that SRBeef's customers are uninformed. How do you know? Perhaps they know they can buy beef cheaper somewhere else, yet they come back for his because they like the product and are willing to pay for it. What's wrong with that?

 

[options]

I guess if it works good enough and everyone is happy continue doing it. A selling price 50% above actual value of the animal in my opinion is not a fair price but it is your beef and not mine what I think doesn't matter. Taking advantage of my own customers is not something I would do just because I can.

You said these things on page 2 of this thread, yet you go on to accuse SRBeef and others of being dishonest. Which is it? Were you lying when you said these things?

Also, you've said a number of times that SRBeef's customers are uninformed. How do you know? Perhaps they know they can buy beef cheaper somewhere else, yet they come back for his because they like the product and are willing to pay for it. What's wrong with that?

That right if it works good for him and everyone is happy he can continue doing, it is also his beef and not mine what I think doesn't matter. In my opinion is he dishonest? yes he is the previous two facts don't chage my opinion. Charging $1.30 for gut filled live fed cattle is a rip off I don't care who you are.

 

[Frankie]

I think you better look up the definition of a arm's length transaction.

Why? Do you have your own, special definition?

What Does Arm's Length Transaction Mean?
A transaction in which the buyers and sellers of a product act independently and have no relationship to each other. The concept of an arm's length transaction is to ensure that both parties in the deal are acting in their own self interest and are not subject to any pressure or duress from the other party.

A transaction between two related or affiliated parties that is conducted as if they were unrelated, so that there is no question of a conflict of interest. Or sometimes, a transaction between two otherwise unrelated or affiliated parties.

The arm's length principle (ALP) is the condition or the fact that the parties to a transaction are independent and on an equal footing. Such a transaction is known as an "arm's-length transaction". It is used specifically in contract law to arrange an equitable agreement that will stand up to legal scrutiny, even though the parties may have shared interests (e.g., employer-employee) or are too closely related to be seen as completely independent (e.g., the parties have familial ties).

An arm's length transaction involves the buying and selling of goods, services, properties, or stocks between two parties that are completely separate from one another. Generally speaking, an arm's length transaction is the most common of all types of transactions. Here are some examples of qualifications that must be met in order for the activity to be defined as an arm's length transaction.

My emphasis added above.

 

[options]

Also, you've said a number of times that SRBeef's customers are uninformed. How do you know? Perhaps they know they can buy beef cheaper somewhere else, yet they come back for his because they like the product and are willing to pay for it. What's wrong with that?

Seriously you are not that naive. You are trying to tell me that they know they are being charged 65% above the market value of the animal and they still pay it? highly unlikely. Nobody is that stupid.

 

[Frankie]

Also, you've said a number of times that SRBeef's customers are uninformed. How do you know? Perhaps they know they can buy beef cheaper somewhere else, yet they come back for his because they like the product and are willing to pay for it. What's wrong with that?

Seriously you are not that naive. You are trying to tell me that they know they are being charged 65% above the market value of the animal and they still pay it? highly unlikely. Nobody is that stupid.

You don't know what they know. They go to the regular supermarket for cake mixes, bread, etc. They surely look at beef prices there. You're right, nobody is so stupid to pay considerably more for something that's available cheaper IF THEY DIDN'T CONSIDER IT WORTH THE PRICE. Apparently they do consider it worth the price.

 

[options]

Good work Frankie so now you understand I deal directly with the consumer your catchin on quick. Now are they informed? I make sure they are I provide every customer with the daily price for dressed beef the day we discuss price, I provide them with the charges for the slaughter and processing. They are shown any and all expenses. I have nothing to hide. They are well informed but then again I'm honest.

 

[VanC]

This is ridiculous. SRBeef is willing to stand behind his product. He deals with the customers one on one. Neither the packer nor "options" does that. Yes, he gets more for his product and good for him for producing a superior product that the consumer is willing to pay more for. I don't care if his cost of production is zero, if he can sell it for more, go for it. And don't apologize to anyone for making money. To suggest he's hurting the beef business by taking advantage of uninformed consumers is mind boggling. There are supermarkets all over the place. All they have to do is go there and buy their beef, as the majority of beef consumers do. If they CHOOSE to buy from SRBeef, that's their decision.

Frankie don't shoot your mouth off about how I don't stand behind my product I sell over 300 hd a year to individuals thru a custom butcher shop. I stand behind my product. In addition to that I provide all the beef that the local butcher shop sells across their retail counter approx 400 hd per year. I know what it takes to make a profit, I also know when someone is being greedy. Arm's length transactions. Not greed.

I don't know how many head SRBeef sells a year, but I suspect it's not anywhere near 700 head. The smaller guy, in any business, has to charge more than the bigger guy in order to make a reasonable profit. Any fool knows that.

Case in point: I used to work at a small town lumberyard. We had to charge more because we couldn't buy lumber on the grand scale that the Lowes and Home Depots of the world could, yet most of our customers were repeats. They came back because of convenience, loyalty, and the extra services we offered. Yet you would say we were being greedy because we were priced higher. That's a bunch of crap.

Your general tone seems to be resentment towards the smaller "hobby guys" who charge more than you do and make a profit doing it. Why? Is it because that cuts into YOUR profits? Sounds to me like YOU'RE the one thats greedy.

 

[Frankie]

Good work Frankie so now you understand I deal directly with the consumer your catchin on quick. Now are they informed? I make sure they are I provide every customer with the daily price for dressed beef the day we discuss price, I provide them with the charges for the slaughter and processing. They are shown any and all expenses. I have nothing to hide. They are well informed but then again I'm honest.

Not a problem. I already knew what an "arms length transaction" is. Apparently you don't. Read the definitions. If you provide anything directly to the consumer, you're not doing an "arm's length transaction". :roll:

I'm with Van on this one. You're either surpised that you've been selling beef too cheap or afraid of competition.

 

[options]

This is ridiculous. SRBeef is willing to stand behind his product. He deals with the customers one on one. Neither the packer nor "options" does that. Yes, he gets more for his product and good for him for producing a superior product that the consumer is willing to pay more for. I don't care if his cost of production is zero, if he can sell it for more, go for it. And don't apologize to anyone for making money. To suggest he's hurting the beef business by taking advantage of uninformed consumers is mind boggling. There are supermarkets all over the place. All they have to do is go there and buy their beef, as the majority of beef consumers do. If they CHOOSE to buy from SRBeef, that's their decision.

Frankie don't shoot your mouth off about how I don't stand behind my product I sell over 300 hd a year to individuals thru a custom butcher shop. I stand behind my product. In addition to that I provide all the beef that the local butcher shop sells across their retail counter approx 400 hd per year. I know what it takes to make a profit, I also know when someone is being greedy. Arm's length transactions. Not greed.

I don't know how many head SRBeef sells a year, but I suspect it's not anywhere near 700 head. The smaller guy, in any business, has to charge more than the bigger guy in order to make a reasonable profit. Any fool knows that.

Case in point: I used to work at a small town lumberyard. We had to charge more because we couldn't buy lumber on the grand scale that the Lowes and Home Depots of the world could, yet most of our customers were repeats. They came back because of convenience, loyalty, and the extra services we offered. Yet you would say we were being greedy because we were priced higher. That's a bunch of crap.

Your general tone seems to be resentment towards the smaller "hobby guys" who charge more than you do and make a profit doing it. Why? Is it because that cuts into YOUR profits? Sounds to me like YOU'RE the one thats greedy.

no Van I trurely care about the long term health of my industry.
I have seen so many hobby guys slap a black eye on my industry it disgusts me. You have no idea how many times I have heard people complain about getting ripped off by a hobby guy. For every hobby guy acting unethically there are 100's of cattle men and women doing it honestly. Who do you think gets more word of mouth advertising the 100's of honest ones or the one puke who ripped off the customer? Thats right you won't hear a single word about the honest ones. Everybody hears about that one dishonest guy. Now what do you suppose the perception is about the cattle industry?

When I hear someone say well I charge $1.30 live then add in the slaughter and proccessing and a small delivery charge. I cringe. I know what labor it takes to do this I know what expenses it takes to do this. 65% above the value of the animal is unethical. Especially when a person considers the live weight was with gut fill, but whatever I keep reminding myself 19 months ago srbeef was new to cattle. Maybe I am being hard on SRBeef just trying to make a point that most of you are unable to see. Your cattle are not any better than anybody elses, every rancher, cow calf man, backgrounder, feedlot owner believes they are producing a better product it is human nature. but trust me we ain't all chiefs in this tribe most are just indians thinking we are chiefs. I've seen so many people rip the packing and retail industry about thier pricing seriously have any of you actually sat down and looked at the numbers? Many of you would realize the packers margins are very thin. If they even have a plus margin. Then after you complain about what they charge you want to do the same without the expenses. Why when some of you just complained about how greedy they are?

 

[options]

Good work Frankie so now you understand I deal directly with the consumer your catchin on quick. Now are they informed? I make sure they are I provide every customer with the daily price for dressed beef the day we discuss price, I provide them with the charges for the slaughter and processing. They are shown any and all expenses. I have nothing to hide. They are well informed but then again I'm honest.

Not a problem. I already knew what an "arms length transaction" is. Apparently you don't. Read the definitions. If you provide anything directly to the consumer, you're not doing an "arm's length transaction". :roll:

I'm with Van on this one. You're either surpised that you've been selling beef too cheap or afraid of competition.

What in the heck are you talking about I sell 300 hd directly to the consumer every year can't you read?

 

[options]

I already knew what an "arms length transaction" is. Apparently you don't. Read the definitions. If you provide anything directly to the consumer, you're not doing an "arm's length transaction". :roll:

Per your definitions that you provided show me where any anything provided directly to the consumer is not an arm's length transaction?

 

[LimiMan]

Options, why dont you break down the cost of getting a calf to the butcher and tell us what you charge and what your expenses are per calf.

 

[options]

Options, why dont you break down the cost of getting a calf to the butcher and tell us what you charge and what your expenses are per calf.

$1.41 hanging the rest is their choice.

 

[Herefords.US]

I know what labor it takes to do this I know what expenses it takes to do this. 65% above the value of the animal is unethical.

At what point (percentage above the "value" of the animal) does the price become unethical in your mind? 10%? 25%? 50%?

Using your perverted logic, options, I'm now trying to figure out whether I should really feel guilty about selling a 6 month old show heifer for $1500 (about 3 times market price) or if I should be outraged that Colyer and Upstream sell some of theirs for $40,000 - $50,000.

George

 

[LimiMan]

What about the expenses? From the time the calf hits the ground up until you get him butchered.

 

[options]

I know what labor it takes to do this I know what expenses it takes to do this. 65% above the value of the animal is unethical.

At what point (percentage above the "value" of the animal) does the price become unethical in your mind? 10%? 25%? 50%?

Using your perverted logic, options, I'm now trying to figure out whether I should really feel guilty about selling a 6 month old show heifer for $1500 (about 3 times market price) or if I should be outraged that Colyer and Upstream sell some of theirs for $40,000 - $50,000.

George

George if you sold that 6 month old show heifer for $1500 knowing they were buying it for slaughter you should be ashamed of yourself. Coyler and Upstream should be shot for charging that much for slaughter heifers. Oh wait they are not slaughter animals are they? George my opinion of you has fallen dramatically. Comparing fed cattle to show and breeding heifers.

 

[options]

What about the expenses? From the time the calf hits the ground up until you get him butchered.

Nothing ever hit the ground LimiMan I buy calves.

 

[Herefords.US]

I know what labor it takes to do this I know what expenses it takes to do this. 65% above the value of the animal is unethical.

At what point (percentage above the "value" of the animal) does the price become unethical in your mind? 10%? 25%? 50%?

Using your perverted logic, options, I'm now trying to figure out whether I should really feel guilty about selling a 6 month old show heifer for $1500 (about 3 times market price) or if I should be outraged that Colyer and Upstream sell some of theirs for $40,000 - $50,000.

George

George if you sold that 6 month old show heifer for $1500 knowing they were buying it for slaughter you should be ashamed of yourself. Coyler and Upstream should be shot for charging that much for slaughter heifers. Oh wait they are not slaughter animals are they? George my opinion of you has fallen dramatically. Comparing fed cattle to show and breeding heifers.

You didn't answer my question. At what point does the price become unethical in your mind?

George

 

[VanC]

I'm with Van on this one.

Uh oh. Maybe I'd better rethink my position. ;-)

 

[LimiMan]

Wow, thats a lot of calves to buy, how do you keep track of which ones had what shots or implants before you bought them, how are you able to tell your customers which bull and cow their beef came from? How are you able to tell your customers what those 300-700 calves have been fed before you bought them? How were all those calves raised and handled, did you go to every farm and see what kind of conditions they were raised in?