KAstocker
Well-known member
$40 per AUM per year?
Greg Judy and Profit per Acre
- Thread starter Muletrack
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Not familiar with Kit Pharo, are the bulls he sells 100% Angus or a cross with something like a Lowline to get the smaller moderate framed cows?
Rydero
Well-known member
I'm not advocating for bigger cows, I run 1250lb cows generally. I am definitely for getting the highest weaning weight I can attain through management (crossbreeding, rotational grazing, quality water sources etc) not inputs.
Yes smaller calves are more $ per lb but they don't dollar out per head. I can sell a newborn calf for $400 here in the spring - that's over $4/lb but I'd rather sell them in the fall for about $2/lb (Canadian) when they weigh 600-700lbs because that cow is only calving once a year and I need to bring in more income. As I pointed out earlier those lighter lower $/hd calves have many of the same overhead costs associated with them including the capital cost of a cow spread out over less income, that's less efficient and less profit. It sounds great - just run more cows but it really isn't that simple financially.
All that said - it's a great discussion to have and there's certainly lots to learn from Greg Judy and others like him. The same old ways aren't working for most people that's for sure.
BFE
Well-known member
OCC's stated theory is that the 500-600# weaning weight is the sweet spot for cow calf efficiency. Much bigger and your cow probably needs added inputs. Around here, that's also the sweet spot for price/# vs. weight. 600# and up start getting less price/# quickly, so not much incentive for me to sell that heavier calf. In other words, I'll make more selling 10000# worth of 5 weights than 10000# of 7 weights. If that means I can run even 10% more smaller efficient cows I'm ahead. There is something to be said about the smaller end of moderate, but I still don't have much faith in the 900 pound cow.
I think the regenerative movement is legit. Gabe Brown is the messiah in the movement as far as I can see, he incorporates everything into his program.
I think the regenerative movement is legit. Gabe Brown is the messiah in the movement as far as I can see, he incorporates everything into his program.
No. $40 per AUM x 12 would give you $480 per year cost.
100% Registered black angus. He also sells registered red, registered Hereford, and composite crosses for warmer environments. He does sales twice a year in NE, TX, CO, MO, AL and expanded to australia as well and does one there
I'm trying to decipher your post. 55k and 33k is that acres? And what is AUM?
If 55k and 33k is acres thats 88k acres for 4k head......according to my math that is over 20 to 1...acres per head.
if half that is grazable land he is still at 10 to 1. If i am calculating right ....he can't go wrong with that many acres per animal unless the grass is very sparse or poor.
Dave
Well-known member
An AUM is animal unit month. That is one cow/calf pair or bull per month. Here we figure 5 acres per cow per month is a ball park figure on range land.
Silver
Well-known member
I'd have to look at my paperwork but I think a yearling is 3/4 of an AUM here.
bigbluegrass
Well-known member
Taking a ratio of the cow weight and calf weaning weight has always made sense to me, to select for cows that wean a larger percent of their own weight. I think that gives you a good number to compare cows to each other. The downside is, you will eventually be selecting for a higher milking cow. How much more does a higher milking cow eat than a lower milking cow? Do they just eat more when they are milking or is it all year round? I am sure someplace has (maybe) done research on that.
Yes 55k and 33k acres. Sorry was distracted when I wrote that.
Normal stocking rate here is 50 acres per cow. This year with the drought it was more like 100 acres per cow. Both his leased ranches were operating with those rates when he took over.
He is running considerably above the typical stocking rate now, and he has improved the ground so much with intensive grazing and moves over the last 20 years that he has increased forage amount and soil quality to a very atypical level for here. He couldn't build dams because of state restrictions so he brought in beavers and now the once small stream has turned into a huge wetlands area that subirrigates a pretty substantial area.
Regenerative ag works wonders when done right. The worse your ground and rainfall the better it works.
Little Joe
Well-known member
I use Greg Judy's teaching about like I do Dave Ramsey's in my finances, as Dave says "I'm Davish". I don't follow either one to a T but I use the advice they give and apply what I can to my situation. They both teach the extremes because most of the people their teaching are the extreme the other way so if you end up somewhere in the middle you'll be okay. As far as the south polls, I like many of the qualities they bring to the table such as performing well on fescue,heat tolerant, disease resistance and gentle. I read where one place used south poll bulls on their large framed beefmaster cows to get a more moderate size cow. a lady I know just bought some 1/2 SP 1/2 red angus heifers for $1000 each, they'll be a moderate size cow. That's where I see the south poll being good to moderate the size of your cows or give you some traits your breed might not have. I follow a south poll group on facebook and alot of them are crossing with angus and having a nice calf.
Silver
Well-known member
I have mixed thoughts on the "higher milking cow" debate. While I have seen cows produce themselves out of a job, I also maintain that a cow's job is to turn forage into milk. More milk makes more pounds on the scale at weaning time.
Everybody's situation is a different to some degree. We have a certain number of cattle we feel we can manage without hired help, and I believe we are there. So based on that I want those cows to produce pounds of calf. If a cow eats $50 more hay in a winter and produces a 750 lb calf at 210 days I think that's better than saving the $50 on hay and giving up $150 on her calf.
If my situation were different and I was stocked to the maximum and could comfortably manage more cattle then the "more smaller cows" scheme might be more appealing.
Everybody's situation is a different to some degree. We have a certain number of cattle we feel we can manage without hired help, and I believe we are there. So based on that I want those cows to produce pounds of calf. If a cow eats $50 more hay in a winter and produces a 750 lb calf at 210 days I think that's better than saving the $50 on hay and giving up $150 on her calf.
If my situation were different and I was stocked to the maximum and could comfortably manage more cattle then the "more smaller cows" scheme might be more appealing.
Little Joe
Well-known member
I seen an ad the other day for an outfit looking for hands to rotate cattle by horseback April-October I believe in Utah. No fences just hands on horse 16 hours a day wrangling cattle. Sounded like more of a prescribed grazing technique where they keep cattle off sensitive areas and graze other areas more intensely. Said the location was 2 hours to town and about 30 minute drive from home camp to herd daily.
I have always enjoyed Greg's content and its all been helpful. I don't think he is teaching to the extremes. He preaches smaller cattle size and that works for him with his direct marketing approach. If your marketing is the sale barn then yes your size would naturally go up a little from his 900lb cows. The best take away I have gotten from him is the low input cost and don't spend money on machinery. I also picked up a lot of fencing ideas from him because I always over did it.
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Muletrack
Well-known member
Kenyon spoke last year at our North Dakota Grazing Lands Coalition meeting. I had some time to chat with him. I really liked that he doesn't even own a tractor! Having put a case of ether a year down the throat of my old 4430 -- that's something I can love! Yes. Judy does things in Missouri that wouldn't work at all in eastern North Dakota. No one is going to graze all winter on stockpiled anything (unless it is standing corn). Bale grazing, like Kenyon does in Alberta, I think, is definitely in my future.
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Muletrack
Well-known member
Our normal stocking rate is about 6 acres per pair, but that's for 150-180 days.
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Muletrack
Well-known member
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Muletrack
Well-known member
Thanks for the feedback. I've been reading Kit Pharo's Herd Quitter Blog -- I'm a herd quitter at heart, so it resonates with me.
Dave
Well-known member
One of the things from that extension guy from Nebraska was he would drive around searching for hailed down corn. The farmer would have already collected insurance on it. Combining it is a mess so they are most always happy to sell it laying down. He would strip graze it. That is how he wintered his cows. Sounds like it would be a good idea. But you need corn and hail. Never had either in the areas I have lived.
