Lee VanRoss
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Bigfoot> Run that math by one more time.. i.e. total acres vs total dollars. your'e welcome..
Greg Judy and Profit per Acre
- Thread starter Muletrack
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Muletrack, agree with your calving in good weather! But couldn't this be accomplished by calving in May/June on much better quality forage to encourage better bred back? The calves could wean onto the good forage you describe in November and December and January? This would give a better breed back at less cost of carrying early lactating cows during breeding season.
Pjm961, appreciate your figures with stockpiled fescue. I am working with the same numbers now. If you are successful now with fall calving, would you not be more successful with spring calving? Perhaps running more cows on the same acreage? I am trying to run these numbers myself.
Dave
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That is right but in these cases there are a lot of hidden costs that are difficult to account for. For example what is the cost when it takes most all day to put out salt or the weeks it takes to gather all the critters in the fall or the ones you just never see again? They are all costs associated with that type of land.
RDFF
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His calving window is everything EXCEPT Dec-Mar. Just watched a video where he was talking about it.
Rydero
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More of a calving chunk of wall missing. How would you even manage nutrition properly everyone all over the place? Idk sounds less like a commercial cattle operation and more like niche, csa, Youtube channel.
KAstocker
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He didn't explain if he culled late calvers or not. I would think he would want to do that to avoid messing with young calves all the time while rotating so often and going on cattle drives down the road. His big point is he wants one herd together as long as possible. He's definitely niche though, selling direct to consumer and niche low frame, low input seedstock. That probably allows a spread out calving window.
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Little Joe
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When you're direct marketing you don't want all your calves at one time, you need a consistent supply of calves so calving year round makes more sense. Greg also doesn't wean or separate calves from the herd, he says that's up to the cow to do. He preaches consistently that if a cow or bull is having problems with his management style he culls, so eventually all you have are genetics that work for that style of management.
Little Joe
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I seen this today on the south poll cattle page on Facebook, it's from Bent tree farms owned by Teddy Gentry from the band Alabama where the south poll were originated. 2nd column is birth weight, 4th column is weaning weight, last is percentage of cows weight in weaning weight. Based on those numbers the cows were mostly 1000-1100 lbs.
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Little Joe
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Average age on these calves were 215 days
BFE
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That is pretty dang good. I wonder what the bulls' yearling and mature weights are.
Little Joe
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Yea I saw that on their page. Great weaning weights and percentages. From what I remember Greg is doing the nearly year round calving because it helps with selling the finished steers throughout the year vs all of them being ready at once to his customers.
Little Joe
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I doubt he's paying those kind of prices per acre, in my area it's more like $25/acre. Especially considering most of the places he picks up were overgrown and needed fence, probably more in the $15/acre range or free. Some people will let you graze overgrown land as long as you'll keep it cleaned up or make improvements to the property.
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Muletrack
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I think it pencils out well because of the zero calving mortality. Breed back? Cows are in the best possible condition at calving -- maybe a little too much condition. They are outside in a February blizzard tonight and are still fat and happy. Another part I really like is that the bulls don't have to run around following the herd. All breeding is usually done in drylot -- only this year because of the late fall, they bred for the first month on alfalfa pasture aftermath with some of last years alfalfa bales left out there to polish off. No, this is clearly the best time for me. NDSU studies have shown this clearly. Plus I can market newly weaned calves for grass $ in May, or very easily keep them on grass until the end of September. Dry cows means I can stock pastures with more numbers -- or if I were so inclined could keep them in the drylot feeding baled corn stover and DDGS. NDSU has done extensive work with drylot cow/calf production -- no pasture, ever. https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/publications/livestock/drylot-beef-cow-calf-production/as974.pdf
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Muletrack
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Breeding back is all about nutrition, and matching cow type to available resources.
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Muletrack
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Cows don't need as much fancy hay once breeding season is over -- that will be Dec. 15 this year. Calves have access to creep hay so they don't have to compete with the cows. I feed cows my best hay first, of course, is is kind of hard to get used to. I don't think I'd ever go back to spring calving, but I have moved it up a month -- from just after Labor Day to about Aug. 10 -- just so I'm not calving into late October when it can be pretty cold some years.
Oh, and May and June weather is nothing to brag about in North Dakota.
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Muletrack
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https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/archive/streeter/98report/fall98.htm This work needs to be run again. I've talked the Central Grasslands Research Extension Center interim director about it. In the 1990's, when this study was done, we didn't have much in N.D. for co-product feeds like DDGS, etc. Fall calving friend of mine uses a lot of this type of material, especially sunflower screenings and ground pasta products. We are sitting here with the nation's third largest pasta company in our backyard -- Dakota Growers Pasta Company. If you've eaten at Olive Garden, you've eaten Carrington, N.D., pasta. Some guys also feed potato waste, sugar beet pulp (which I love to feed because it's great nutrition and free, but it cost me about $600/load for a big live bottom truck), and of course, wheat midds.
Muletrack, you have been studying well. I must submit that cattle are designed to be on grass. Occasionally, there are situations where outside influences, grain or forage byproducts available at very cheap rates, etc.. that make confinement feeding look attractive. But when all costs, facilities, equipment, labor,manure disposal, etc. are included makes it hard to pencil out. You stated that you are breeding this year in confinement, don't know about normally, but that means to me that every bit of nutrition for that cow , at her very peak of requirements, you are paying for out of your pocket, over and above your normal pasture cost. Regardless of how cheap that is, how can it be cheaper than the May grass that you say you're calves do so well on? To plagiarize Allen Nation, " On a scale of 1 to10 all the things we do for our cattle, nutrition, genetics, health, are 1's and 2's. Timing your calving to your forage is a 10." Help me understand.
Interesting article. If I may ask, how many do you keep in the dry lot and for how long?
