grass based genetics.....please explain

[Anonymous]

Very well explained. We are lucky enough here to be able to grow pasture year round if done right. At the same time, we're cursed with higher prices for everything that has to be bought and trucked in.
I shoot for 24 months grass raised but grain finished. Sure it takes longer than other options, but I personally prefer the taste.

 

[AllForage]

With youth comes tenderness and with age comes flavor. 24-30 months is a great balance of the two.

 

[andybob]

This link gives a good explaination of grass feeding on native pasture, written by a well respected cattle and pasture specialist;
http://sangacattle.webs.com/apps/forums ... -ballgame-

 

[shaz]

With youth comes tenderness and with age comes flavor. 24-30 months is a great balance of the two.

I see what your saying but don't you take a hit holding a calf for 2 winters? Is it worth it?
What about a 20 month old heifer?

 

[dieselbeef]

i get my beefmasters to 1000 in 20 mos...grass and citrus pellets. 5/lb per had per day..just so they walk in the pens everday so i can catch em if i need to

 

[AllForage]

With youth comes tenderness and with age comes flavor. 24-30 months is a great balance of the two.

I see what your saying but don't you take a hit holding a calf for 2 winters? Is it worth it?
What about a 20 month old heifer?

Sure I so called take a hit, but it is a fact of life in this business. They are just simply not finished yet. Stockman Grassfarmer has spent years trying to beat this into people's heads. If your 20 month heifers are coming off grass or annuals and have adequate marbling for your goals then great.

i get my beefmasters to 1000 in 20 mos...grass and citrus pellets. 5/lb per had per day..just so they walk in the pens everday so i can catch em if i need to

Citrus pellets should qualify as they are a non-starch energy supplement. I would use that or beetpulp, but the prices here are just too high. If you are achieving proper marbling then great, but if your momma cows are over a 1000 pounds then it is hard to believe they have started marbling well. Live weight is not a guarantee of proper back-fat or other indicators of finished.

 

[dun]

Live weight is not a guarantee of proper back-fat or other indicators of finished.

Back fat is a poor indicator too. One Hereford bull we used sired calves that were laden with an inch or more of backfat from just grass. When butchered they just barely made choice, and I think the grader was being generous that day. I've found that the be one drawback to having really easy keeping cows that raise big calves.

 

[AllForage]

Live weight is not a guarantee of proper back-fat or other indicators of finished.

Back fat is a poor indicator too. One Hereford bull we used sired calves that were laden with an inch or more of backfat from just grass. When butchered they just barely made choice, and I think the grader was being generous that day. I've found that the be one drawback to having really easy keeping cows that raise big calves.

I believe you are referring to a grain finished animal. I am not totally sure on this and maybe someone has some research, but I think animals lay fat in certain ways according to how they are fed. The introduction of a high energy diet causes an animal to put fat on before it naturally would and soem animals direct that to different places at different times. Back fat is one indicator that the big grass-fed co-ops use to tell if an animal has reached certain level of finish. Is it 100%, no and nothing is. I realize being a former Galloway owner that they do not lay backfat and not all breeds do. I use age and visual fat deposits to determine if they are ready. It has worked for me and I sample every carcass and visually inspect them as well. For another twist, marbling does not guarantee a tender quality product as well, but I use it as a hedge against folks bad cooking. A successful grass-fed program really needs line-bred sires that can give a level of consistency to reduce the factors you have to be concerned with.

 

[dun]

Live weight is not a guarantee of proper back-fat or other indicators of finished.

Back fat is a poor indicator too. One Hereford bull we used sired calves that were laden with an inch or more of backfat from just grass. When butchered they just barely made choice, and I think the grader was being generous that day. I've found that the be one drawback to having really easy keeping cows that raise big calves.

I believe you are referring to a grain finished animal. I am not totally sure on this and maybe someone has some research, but I think animals lay fat in certain ways according to how they are fed. The introduction of a high energy diet causes an animal to put fat on before it naturally would and soem animals direct that to different places at different times. Back fat is one indicator that the big grass-fed co-ops use to tell if an animal has reached certain level of finish. Is it 100%, no and nothing is. I realize being a former Galloway owner that they do not lay backfat and not all breeds do. I use age and visual fat deposits to determine if they are ready. It has worked for me and I sample every carcass and visually inspect them as well. For another twist, marbling does not guarantee a tender quality product as well, but I use it as a hedge against folks bad cooking. A successful grass-fed program really needs line-bred sires that can give a level of consistency to reduce the factors you have to be concerned with.

These were grass fed steer except for 45 days at weaning and easy keeping cows that haven;t had more then a couple of bites of grain in their lifes except at weaning. We made a real effort to select cows that would carry good body condition, raise good calves and put on backfat after their calves were weaned so they wouldn;t need supplementing during the winter. All this on toxic fescue. That has been our selection criteria and it's worked. In the feedlot they need to be fed out differently to not go into YG 4/5.

 

[AllForage]

Dun,

My bad, guess that just goes to show their are other differences within breeds and bloodlines. Got to keep looking until you find one that suits your needs.

 

[agmantoo]

Since I am all grass all the time I do need a specific type of animal. Over the last 15 years I have culled those animals that do not met specific criteria. I cannot have a higher milking cow. Her feed requirements will be higher and at certain periods of the year I do not have such feed. During these periods my cows will drop a little weight. To minimize the weight loss and hold body condition and any fat reserves to aid in her breeding back quicker, I do not want her giving more milk than is essential to keep the calf growing moderately. I want the calf to start early eating the forage I have as that is where I concentrate my savings. I also do not want the calf to get fat from the milk as I want the calf building muscle. Muscle gain, IMO is cheaper to put on than fat. My forage has fair to great protein and little calorie. I do not recommend my feeding regimen in very cold climates as there probably is not enough energy. Supposedly, from verbal feedback, the feeder calves I sell do well when put on the feedlot with the compensatory gain they have from going on a grain based endophyte free diet. In addition to my comments above, for me the animals that meet my grass based feeder calf operation need to be in the frame 4 range, they need to mature at around 1050 lbs, they must be fertile and calf around their 2nd birthday. Gut size must be adequate to take in a lot of forage. Longevity is expected and I expect her to be productive over 10 plus years. Additionally I do not expect to be a midwife for a cow. I would best describe my ideal cow as an "easy keeper" that is productive.

 

[shaz]

I agree. I have 2 7yr old great milkers that fall apart raising a good calf. I'll have to cull them cause their high upkeep doesn't really translate into a calf that outperforms. They just cost more.

 

[AllForage]

Since I am all grass all the time I do need a specific type of animal. Over the last 15 years I have culled those animals that do not met specific criteria. I cannot have a higher milking cow. Her feed requirements will be higher and at certain periods of the year I do not have such feed. During these periods my cows will drop a little weight. To minimize the weight loss and hold body condition and any fat reserves to aid in her breeding back quicker, I do not want her giving more milk than is essential to keep the calf growing moderately. I want the calf to start early eating the forage I have as that is where I concentrate my savings. I also do not want the calf to get fat from the milk as I want the calf building muscle. Muscle gain, IMO is cheaper to put on than fat. My forage has fair to great protein and little calorie. I do not recommend my feeding regimen in very cold climates as there probably is not enough energy. Supposedly, from verbal feedback, the feeder calves I sell do well when put on the feedlot with the compensatory gain they have from going on a grain based endophyte free diet. In addition to my comments above, for me the animals that meet my grass based feeder calf operation need to be in the frame 4 range, they need to mature at around 1050 lbs, they must be fertile and calf around their 2nd birthday. Gut size must be adequate to take in a lot of forage. Longevity is expected and I expect her to be productive over 10 plus years. Additionally I do not expect to be a midwife for a cow. I would best describe my ideal cow as an "easy keeper" that is productive.

This is an excellent explanation of grass based genetics from a very well run operation. I hope expensive hobby read this one. Agamantoo, if you had access to non-ky31 forage for a final graze, you would probably be able to produce some fine grass-finished beef with the genetics you have selected for. This is exactly the way I run my cowherd with the exception of hay feeding during winter and I make my cows nurse just a tad longer.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Was herefordroadhog in this thread at some point?

 

[Dylan Biggs]

I see it as a phrase used by the grass fed beef people as if all other cattle have to be supplemented with grain.
Maybe it allows them to get a better price for their cows from newbies that hve been convinced there is something special about them.
Just marketing.

Pretty much.

Her are some pics of our twos this fall averaged close to nine on the rail, just grass.
Here is a mongrelized or crossbred, your choice, 2 yr old steer, 865lb hot carcass wt, Longhorn, Red Angus, Jersey, Gelbvieh.

Not sure if he is the right type but he grew well on grass and we will make a good net return on the carcass.

A commercial Angus 2 yr old steer hung a 897 lb carcass.

A commercial Red Angus steer hung a 726 lb carcass.

Some other steers.

 

[dieselbeef]

that looks pretty good. nice even layer. how old is the one on the hook? 2 yrs?

 

[ohiosteve]

Excellent pictures Dylan.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

that looks pretty good. nice even layer. how old is the one on the hook? 2 yrs?

All those pics are of 26 to 28 month old grass finished steers. The long cold winters and short growing season here, combined with our choice of calving season, May and June, makes our grass finished two's the preference from a carcass wt and grade standpoint. A bit hard on cash flow for sure but we have been slowly positioning ourselves with the 2 yr old program for the last 16 years, when we started selling grass finished beef. We are out of 2's now for this season and will start killing some 17 month old cattle. Our carcass wts will now be in the 550 to 600 lb range. Since the grass browned off with no rain since the end of July we have been supplementing with baleage for the last 4 weeks.

Dylan

 

[dieselbeef]

grass is just turning now here in fl..been wet to the end of the summer so its been still goin....ive got one comin due on the 22 of this month. i think he'll be 20 mos. ill be sure to post up before during and after pics if i can.
its a beefmaster braford x this time

 

[Dylan Biggs]

Should be good eating. I look forward to the pics.