God Bless America! SAV America 8018 to be exact.

[Bright Raven]

One thing I have noticed after reading through a lot of these postings is this, a lot of people, and I mean a LOT!, seem to NOT be too fond of SAV. I try to figure it out, but cannot at this time.

I just looked through the 2018 beef sire directory from Select Sires. Of the 72 Angus bulls in the directory only 9 are SAV. Three of the nine are brand new bulls with an accuracy of .05%. Only about 1 in 7 or 8 have SAV in the pedigree. Those are mainly Bismark or Final Answer. There are 14 other bulls listed before the first SAV. The others are buried way to the back of the directory. My conclusion is that Select Sires isn't exactly promoting them.
That said I used a Bismark son for several years and was real happy with him. But I also had an Image Maker son that I really liked until someone filled the switch and he became dangerous.

Select Sires is conservative on their beef breeds - only my opinion. I would suggest that instead of it being a case of SS not promoting SAV, might be a case of SS not being as competitive as other stud companies in paying up for the opportunity to market SAV semen. Just another thought.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I wonder, if using America and you are a seedstock producer, are you mating him with females whose EPDs and phenotypes will enhance the offspring, or are you simply using a name to sell offspring.
No herd, anywhere, has even half of there females that would be the ideal cow to mate with him.
I've worked around several purebred breeders.
Rent some pasture to one that has several bulls at Genex and Select Sires. Every cow of his is studied and the correct mating attempted. He uses several AI sires every year.
Simply breeding a name to a name does not guarantee a correct calf. An attempt to make the calf, whether a bull or heifer, better than the mamma is way more complicated than that, that's why every bull prospect shouldn't be a bull. GS

That's a very good question. I plan on using him on Baldridge Colonel daughters, as well as some TenX granddaughters.

I look at the EPD's of the dam before I jump headfirst into using any sire, no matter what his price. I'm using some Sydgen Enhance and Bar R Jet Black right now because both will improve what I'm trying to breed for. They aren't high dollar bulls, but they will do exactly what I need done, then maybe I will go back with SAV America on their daughters or President.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I still can't see justifying $80/straw on an unproven bull when there's literally dozens of bulls with better percentages on solid numbers for a fraction of the price. And I'm not talking about junk bulls, I'm talking bulls that are still pretty strong. The difference is that those other bulls have been doing it, for multiple herds, and proving that they're pretty good.

Maybe in a few years he'll prove his weight in gold, but for now I just don't see it.

he comes from a proven Sire and Dam ..Course he's his own individual .. But I wouldn't want too take bets against him...way too much in his favor...but $80 feels better in my pocket.. :cowboy:

 

[Bestoutwest]

he comes from a proven Sire and Dam ..Course he's his own individual .. But I wouldn't want too take bets against him...way too much in his favor...but $80 feels better in my pocket.. :cowboy:

I know what you're saying, but how many spectacular race horses have foaled duds? I'd rather spend $20-30 on a straw, $40 on the certificate and $10 on beer.

 

[Redgully]

I cannot see how anyone selling commercial calves could justify semen higher than the average $20 to $30 dollars a straw considering the calf is going to a feeder lot.

A lot of us retain heifers. I would consider AI and over $30 if I though there was really something lacking in my females that I wanted to address quickly. Of course, that would only be if I couldn't source a walking bull that I thought would do the job.

I like to think a good bull to purchase should not cost more than the price of 5 good steer calves. Although it seems that good bull power has actually got cheaper as a ratio over the years.
So based on that formula $1,300 steer calves x5 = $6,500.
Bull used for 3 years x 25 calves a year = 75 calves
Works out to $86 per calf natural service.
Of course, the price paid for the bull and the length of time he sticks around changes the price per service quite quickly.
Most of my bulls the last few years have been between $3,500 and $5,000, so considering the quality I feel like I am getting a fair shake from my seedstock guys.

SAV America doesn't fit my program so I wouldn't be interested.

Not to mention being able to sell the bull once done. Wont bring top dollar but usually they are a good weight so go for a bit.

 

[bse]

I read on another site $80 semen $80 certificate so if you don't use the knife or have females to register its $160 just to get the semen and register the calf..

 

[ALACOWMAN]

he comes from a proven Sire and Dam ..Course he's his own individual .. But I wouldn't want too take bets against him...way too much in his favor...but $80 feels better in my pocket.. :cowboy:

I know what you're saying, but how many spectacular race horses have foaled duds? I'd rather spend $20-30 on a straw, $40 on the certificate and $10 on beer.

Thats true ,but I've also seen 2 of the ugliest people have a knock out daughter ..she attract a handsome fellow cause she's hotter than a match.but their offsprings are throw back ugly..there has to be some consistency,going back a few generations

 

[Silver]

I cannot see how anyone selling commercial calves could justify semen higher than the average $20 to $30 dollars a straw considering the calf is going to a feeder lot.

A lot of us retain heifers. I would consider AI and over $30 if I though there was really something lacking in my females that I wanted to address quickly. Of course, that would only be if I couldn't source a walking bull that I thought would do the job.

I like to think a good bull to purchase should not cost more than the price of 5 good steer calves. Although it seems that good bull power has actually got cheaper as a ratio over the years.
So based on that formula $1,300 steer calves x5 = $6,500.
Bull used for 3 years x 25 calves a year = 75 calves
Works out to $86 per calf natural service.
Of course, the price paid for the bull and the length of time he sticks around changes the price per service quite quickly.
Most of my bulls the last few years have been between $3,500 and $5,000, so considering the quality I feel like I am getting a fair shake from my seedstock guys.

SAV America doesn't fit my program so I wouldn't be interested.

Not to mention being able to sell the bull once done. Wont bring top dollar but usually they are a good weight so go for a bit.

You know, some years it works out to it only costing a couple hundred bucks a year to keep a bull after a weigh up sale. Not that that should necessarily be what a feller is shooting for when buying bulls, but it does make a difference in the cost per service equation for sure.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I still can't see justifying $80/straw on an unproven bull when there's literally dozens of bulls with better percentages on solid numbers for a fraction of the price. And I'm not talking about junk bulls, I'm talking bulls that are still pretty strong. The difference is that those other bulls have been doing it, for multiple herds, and proving that they're pretty good.

Maybe in a few years he'll prove his weight in gold, but for now I just don't see it.

If you wait, you are too late.

There is definitely a first mover advantage, but for those that have to see a bull perform for years and years, then they need to breed to Hoover Dam or MYTTY in Focus. I have progeny from both in my herd, but nobody will be excited about buying those names at this point, they are old news in the eyes of many.

I just finished breeding some cows to EXAR Denver 2002B for my own personal use, because if I offered the progeny, nobody would be interested in calves out of him anymore. I'm trying for some daughters, and if I get sons they probably won't sell for much. He's a really good bull, but like I said, yesterday's news.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but guy will pay more for a junky calf with newer bloodlines than a well built one with "older" bloodlines?

 

[Bright Raven]

If you wait, you are too late.

There is definitely a first mover advantage, but for those that have to see a bull perform for years and years, then they need to breed to Hoover Dam or MYTTY in Focus. I have progeny from both in my herd, but nobody will be excited about buying those names at this point, they are old news in the eyes of many.

I just finished breeding some cows to EXAR Denver 2002B for my own personal use, because if I offered the progeny, nobody would be interested in calves out of him anymore. I'm trying for some daughters, and if I get sons they probably won't sell for much. He's a really good bull, but like I said, yesterday's news.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but guy will pay more for a junky calf with newer bloodlines than a well built one with "older" bloodlines?

I disagree. Lots of folks respect the old bloodlines.

 

[Bestoutwest]

There is definitely a first mover advantage, but for those that have to see a bull perform for years and years, then they need to breed to Hoover Dam or MYTTY in Focus. I have progeny from both in my herd, but nobody will be excited about buying those names at this point, they are old news in the eyes of many.

I just finished breeding some cows to EXAR Denver 2002B for my own personal use, because if I offered the progeny, nobody would be interested in calves out of him anymore. I'm trying for some daughters, and if I get sons they probably won't sell for much. He's a really good bull, but like I said, yesterday's news.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but guy will pay more for a junky calf with newer bloodlines than a well built one with "older" bloodlines?

I disagree. Lots of folks respect the old bloodlines.

I agree with you, it was more of a sarcastic question. I'm pretty sure good animals always bring a premium.

 

[jehosofat]

20 pages of I'm the sheit, or I'll buy what IS the sheit. You commercial guys are beneath me.

:banana: :banana:

 

[Bar23]

Can't wait to start talking politics in 2020 with you guys ha ha! #MAGA

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Can't wait to start talking politics in 2020 with you guys ha ha! #MAGA

Not allowed around here, haven't you heard?

 

[Mod2]

Can't wait to start talking politics in 2020 with you guys ha ha! #MAGA

That will draw a lock or delete pretty quickly. You can bet it will be flagged almost immediately.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I wish I had never started this thread, it's become "Fight Club"

Would the MOD please delete the whole thing, ASAP!