Gentle People Gentle Cattle

[Premier Longhorns]

I've been reading posts about normal cattle who seemingly get mean in chutes or enclosed areas. Do they get claustrophobia? -or is it actually a case of induced panic brought on by previously terroizing experiences in the past?

I think a big problem many cattlemen have is that they are either in too much of a hurry or do not handle their cattle at all and when they do they "manhandle" them in effect often terrorizing them. Texas Longhorns for one are extremely smart and learn by association. They don't forget. They know their friends and they know their percieved enemies. There are a lot of cows and bulls out there of all breeds who have been labeled everything from mean, stupid or outright nuts who are simply scared to death. Why? Because they've been "trained" by unwitting handlers to be fearful. They aren't born that way, they become that way.

We treat our cattle with gentle consideration...and within the limits of their ability-there is nothing they wouldn't do for us. Bovine psychology is really little more than plain old common sense. Gentle People make Gentle Cattle...Rough cruel people make normal cattle dangerous. We use a hot wire on our fenceline but no one is going to convince me that Electric shockers used to move cattle aren't a form of bovine terrorism... and where there is fear in a half ton or one ton animal, people and animals get hurt. Check our website for Cattle Handling training techniques that really work. Besides, it's a lot safer and a lot less stressful for all concerned.

After all, common sense dictates you can not out-muscle cattle, so lets out-think them by incorporating gentle handling techniques.
____________________________________________________
Premier Longhorns LLC
Registered Texas Longhorns
Cutting Edge Genetics
Stillwater, OK
http://www.premierlonghorns.com/INFORMATION-LINKS.html

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

I've been reading posts about normal cattle who seemingly get mean in chutes or enclosed areas. Do they get claustrophobia? -or is it actually a case of induced panic brought on by previously terroizing experiences in the past?

I think a big problem many cattlemen have is that they are either in too much of a hurry or do not handle their cattle at all and when they do they "manhandle" them in effect often terrorizing them. Texas Longhorns for one are extremely smart and learn by association. They don't forget. They know their friends and they know their percieved enemies. There are a lot of cows and bulls out there of all breeds who have been labeled everything from mean, stupid or outright nuts who are simply scared to death. Why? Because they've been "trained" by unwitting handlers to be fearful. They aren't born that way, they become that way.

We treat our cattle with gentle consideration...and within the limits of their ability-there is nothing they wouldn't do for us. Bovine psychology is really little more than plain old common sense. Gentle People make Gentle Cattle...Rough cruel people make normal cattle dangerous. We use a hot wire on our fenceline but no one is going to convince me that Electric shockers used to move cattle aren't a form of bovine terrorism... and where there is fear in a half ton or one ton animal, people and animals get hurt. Check our website for Cattle Handling training techniques that really work. Besides, it's a lot safer and a lot less stressful for all concerned.

After all, common sense dictates you can not out-muscle cattle, so lets out-think them by incorporating gentle handling techniques.
____________________________________________________
Premier Longhorns LLC
Registered Texas Longhorns
Cutting Edge Genetics
Stillwater, OK
http://www.premierlonghorns.com/INFORMATION-LINKS.html

I agree 100% !!

Too many cattle people are either too impatient, too "old school", too "hurry up" and this causes them to rush rather than work cattle in a calm way.

Longhorns are especially responsive to calm management and learn and remember very easily via verbal and hand signals/body language instructions by the handler.

 

[Brandonm2]

In any group of cattle there will eventually be born "mean" cattle that want to hurt people and "Spooky" cattle that get scared out of their wits at any amount of streess. It probably pays dividends to identify those calves early and get them outta there. All that said, cattle do LEARN how you want them to act. Example, I had a neighbor who was a VERY good cattleman, who also loved to motorbike, cowboy break horses, hunt, dogs, etc. In short he was a very HE-man type. He moved his cattle with dogs, atvs, whips, and PELLET GUNS. When his Limousin, Simmental, or Red Angus bull jumped the fence I would jump in my pickup truck and join in the high speed races after him (pellets just a flying from the old man on the bike). They were wild as all get out in the chute, in the trailer, in the barn, in the field, etc; BUT anything we wanted to do with the cattle we could get it done. It was scary as heck, but he enjoyed himself and I think even the cows liked it!!

Me and my Grandfather were always lazier (though we could work 50 cows without hiring the first hand either). Eventually MY bull got out that fence his was always tearing up. Naturally, they did not call me before acting "the cowboy way". Well, I got the message that I was needed. The old man calmly told me that my bull was the craziest bull that he had ever worked with and we needed to put him down before somebody got killed. As I understood the story, the bull turned on the pellet guns and charged bike after bike head on and rolled the dog twice. His grandson emphasized that that was the biggest meanest craziest bull they had ever seen. Ignoring the helpful advice, I drove out to the field, got out of my truck, dropped the tailgate, poured out 15 pounds of range cubes into a 5 gallon bucket, and led the bull out of the field on foot at a slow speed. The whole deal took five minutes (after listening to a 50 minute story) and I proceeded to fix the fence (again!!).

You train cattle to do what you want them to do. They will come on command, let dogs drive them into pens, will move away from a horse and rider or flee in the opposite direction of a pellet gun if THAT is what you train them to do. Where cattle have a hard time is when you are inconsistent. For example, cattle who have never seen a herding dog before will be a lot harder to pen with one than a herd that is used to being penned by a dog. Likewise cows who have never eaten out of a trough aren't going to come running up when you put grain in one.

 

[dun]

We've had calves in the same year that were so calm in the chute as to be almost comatose and others that went nuts. Didn;t have diddly to do with handling, just that some calves are excitable at any change. If a heifer that we plan on keeping acts goofy in the chute after she;s been in there a couple of times, she gets a RFID tag and heads to the backrounder. We've had calm cows raise a lunatic and one of the heifers we retained from last year is out of a cow that turned into a raving maniac when she was about 7. Alwasy had been skittish, but no real problems. Until she decided she wanted stalk and kill my wife out in the pasture every chance she got. Her heifer is almost too calm and tame. A real pain in the butt to work because she alwasy turns around to see what your doing and if you'll give her a scratch.
I agree that calm calves/cattle can be made into nuts, but some are just born that way.

 

[Bluestem]

Good post. Cattle work best when they are calm. They generally want to please. Will do what is asked of them if they understand what it is you want them to do. There smarter than most people.

 

[Brute 23]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

We got some cattle whisperers on here. :roll:

You can,, some times,, make a calm cow bad by being too "rough" but you can not always make a bad cow calm by being calm.

The key to any animal is socialization to people and its surroundings. The more time the animals spends being worked the easier.

I agree there is no need to be overly rough but I wouldn't hesitate to be rough if needed. Its just something that comes from experience. Don't think any one can write a book on the propper way to handle all cattle. ;-)

 

[Outrigger2]

excellent posts. i notice than some people lose their patience when cattle don't do what they want. it has happened to me, but my patience with cattle has gotten better and i try to make things as stress free as possible. i will tell people that are around the chute to talk in normal tone and not yell. don't get excited if they get past you in the pen. i agree with dun, some cattle are just more excitable that others.

 

[jkwilson]

Probably a lot of truth there, but there are some that are just born nuts. Had a heifer one year who would charge if you got close. She had never been caught or handled for anything. When we worked calves, she went straight into the trailer out of the chute. I'd been run out of the pasture too many times by then.

 

[cowgirl Ibara]

I agree. I've noticed that some cattle have the personality of their owners. A few friends and I raise market calves and if the person is jumpy and hyper i notice their calf is to. But one girl had a calf that wouldn't walk so she would pull on his halter and scream until he had completely shut down and decided that he wasn't going to budge. So she started yelling and saying he was just so stupid and threw the lead rope at his face. I hate when people get so short tempered and blame the cattle and us forceful tactics or they just give up on them all together.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I have seen way too many spoiled rotten dogs and horses raised the "whisperer way".
And i have seen some pretty bad cattle- that were never shown that when push comes to shove whos boss. They go where they want to go no matter what-cause someone let them over and over.

Either extreme in handling is Bad. Gotta do whats right and thats in the middle ground as always. Work them calm if they will let you- be ready to show them whos boss if you have to.

Cattle that are pussy cats show their true temperment when shipped and put in a new environment. Cattle will always work better if handled by the same person(s) in a known environment. And I am a firm believer in the moons cycles- some days cattle are just not going to calm down-no matter how they are handled.

 

[I luv herfrds]

Interesting post. We try to work our cattle calmly. HAD a friend help years ago shipping calves. He showed up with a hot shot and got one of our nicer cows on the fight. I thought she was going to go through the corral after him. Never had him back.
Our cows can be calm, but ever once in awhile we get a snorter who needs to go. Don't keep the "crazies" around here.

 

[randiliana]

I agree, and I disagree. You can make calm cattle wild by treating them badly, but you cannot always make wild cattle calm. Some cattle are simply born wild. And I do know what I am talking about.

We run 170 head of cattle, 140 are ours, and 30 are leased cattle. For the most part, we can handle our cattle with no problems. Except for a couple exceptions they are pretty calm, we can work them, walk through them, run them down the chute, and no-one has to worry about being run over or having cattle go through or over a fence, there is very little excitement.

Now the 30 lease cattle are a different story. We have had them 4 years now, and they are better than they were when we first got them, but try to actually work with them, or put them in a chute and you have animals bouncing off the fences, and you better be watching your back just a bit. Try just try walking through them, or riding a horse through them. As soon as they see you they are gone, to the farthest corner they can get to. To top it off the calves off these cows are even worse. We had to treat a couple for pnemonia a couple weeks ago. Sorting the 2 off that we needed was quite interesting. We had one calf literally go through a rail fence. We had cut him back, thinking he was one that we needed. It was fortunate that we didn't need him because he made his own gate to get out. When we finally got the 2 we needed into the crowding pen, they were bouncing off the walls, and this was before we even tried to run them down the chute. There was no yelling, no arm waving, nothing going on to get these animals excited, short of the fact that we had them in and were trying to sort the un-needed ones off.

We can run most of our own calves down the chute, and never have them get excited, maybe get a little worked up once they are caught and you are needling or what not, but not bounce off the fence excited. So to say that all cattle are 'made' wild is a bit broad.....

 

[cfpinz]

We do everything in our power to keep calm cattle, from pen layouts to occasional grain to just being quiet around them. Every once in a while we'll get one that just wigs out, but it's by far the exception. We had to doctor on a bred heifer (home-raised) this evening for a touch of pinkeye. I didn't feel like leading the whole group across three pastures to the barn with the chute in it so we put her in an old barn my Grampa used to feed in 30 years ago. Roped her and tied to a pole while my wife held the rope. Heifer never flinched while I stuck her with LA-200, flushed the eye with pen and patched it. Never thrashed one time, kind of surprised me to be honest. She's not a pet, can't scratch her but she'll take cubes from your hand. A lot can be said for calm cattle.

cfpinz

 

[msscamp]

I've been reading posts about normal cattle who seemingly get mean in chutes or enclosed areas. Do they get claustrophobia? -or is it actually a case of induced panic brought on by previously terroizing experiences in the past?

Laugh if you want to, but cattle can indeed be claustrophobic. And I don't know of very many things that will make a bull meaner than running him through a chute repeatedly - even a good natured bull. Learned that lesson the year that my grandfather bought a bunch of open vibrio infected heifers at the salebarn, then put them out to pasture next to our bulls. Another aspect is understanding how cattle think, what makes them tick, and how to get them to do what you want them to do.

I think a big problem many cattlemen have is that they are either in too much of a hurry or do not handle their cattle at all and when they do they "manhandle" them in effect often terrorizing them.

I would agree, to a point. Even if cattle haven't been handled, if the handler understands them, then he/she can get them to do what is needed.

They aren't born that way, they become that way.

I disagree on this one - some cattle are just looney-tunes from the getgo! Whether the objective is achieved depends on the handlers ability to recognize looney-tunes cattle, and their ability to handle them.

We treat our cattle with gentle consideration...and within the limits of their ability-there is nothing they wouldn't do for us.

I think you have a lot to learn!

Bovine psychology is really little more than plain old common sense. Gentle People make Gentle Cattle...Rough cruel people make normal cattle dangerous.

Although there is merit to what you're saying, I would have to say your statement is - for the most part - bullshit! As previously stated, some cattle are simply looney-tunes, and the most gentle handling in the world isn't going to change that!

____________________________________________________
Premier Longhorns LLC
Registered Texas Longhorns
Cutting Edge Genetics
Stillwater, OK
http://www.premierlonghorns.com/INFORMATION-LINKS.html

 

[Joy in Texas]

I think it depends on what type of cattle you have. Some breeds are more aggressive than others. It also depends on where and how you raise them.
If,they are raised out in west Texas on a big ranch. The sight of humans are little to none. Until round up day.Then it is a rodeo. Yes, these animals are going to go crazy.
We have a few hundred acres of land. I know every cow ,calf and bull on every piece of property. I have a ledger,I keep up with everything these animals do.From the time they are born until they are wean and sold or kept.Whatever it is I know. I do not believe totally that you yourself make all bad calves mean. SOME ARE BORN THAT WAY.
Take the 16 sale barn calves I bought last month. I knew nothing about them ,except they went thru heck ,before coming here. They would run slamming into the side of the pens. They had 2 days of peace and quite. The following days, I moved them from pen to pen,made a few passes in put together shute. Load and unload in a trailor. Why, because it shows them their is nothing to be afraid of. I have an old trailor that they will play in now.
Hubby ,took the first 8 last saturday for shots and a few had to be dehorned. I don't go to the vet with him. Out of the 8,one limo developed an attitude. So she stay behind and the rest went to their new home.
I go out there 3 times a day to check on them. They all come up to me looking for their "cookies". I will walk into the pens and out the shute. All 7 will follow me with no problem.
No, all of our cows are pets. They are calm...big difference. When,we work the older cows. I have my piece of pvc pipe and the hubby has his hot shot and whip. Not that we use them ,it's in case we do.

 

[warpaint]

There are wild and crazy, in any breed.

I agree that handling slow and easy makes for a more harmonius outcome.

I have a cow, that is the sweetest thing in my herd, (will help me call the rest down.) Eats out of my hand. But.......

Let her have a newborn, and she will get in your backpocket in a heartbeat. Dang near broke my leg for me with the last one. It didn't matter, that what I was trying to do was going to benefit her and the calf. She saw me as a predator, and did her job.

 

[TheBullLady]

You never know exactly what a cow / bull will do, until they are penned or cornered. Even the most gentle cows in pasture will get scared, and don't think they won't go over you if they panic.

We rarely use a hot shot.. we do use the white sort stick, and all our cows will follow a white bucket. It's always easier to have them follow than it is to push them. Especially a Brahman! If they think it's their idea, they are much easier to handle. If you have patience when you handle them, it's amazing how much you can do with them.

 

[dun]

You never know exactly what a cow / bull will do, until they are penned or cornered. Even the most gentle cows in pasture will get scared, and don't think they won't go over you if they panic.

We rarely use a hot shot.. we do use the white sort stick, and all our cows will follow a white bucket. It's always easier to have them follow than it is to push them. Especially a Brahman! If they think it's their idea, they are much easier to handle. If you have patience when you handle them, it's amazing how much you can do with them.

Many, many years ago it was Brhamn influenced cattle that taught me that I didn;t know squat about working cattle. Whatever abilitys I have now came from them educating me.

 

[Outrigger2]

i agree bulllady. i try to call the cattle when moving from pasture to pasture most of the time it works perfectly. they move better when they think its their idea

 

[sjr725]

Our cows have historically been pretty docile - if I get a heifer that acts high headed she'll more than likely go down the road. It just makes good business sense to work cattle in a calm, quiet manner to avoid unnecessary stress i.e. weight loss. I think alot depends on your working facilities, if you have your alleys, chute & pens set up right then cattle can move easily and have no choice but to go in the right direction. Since most often it's just hubby & me, we use 2 good border collies, but again we have trained the dogs to be gentler than some I've seen but they'll still get tough when they have to like when a cow tries to turn around in the alley or going up the loading chute or something - I like to use a stock whip with a plastic bag tied to the end - makes a little noise and seems to help - I can still spank one if I need to but mostly just an extension of my arm to direct them or keep them going. Our cows are out on a couple thousand acres of forest service ground all summer and when we go to bring them in - the hardest part is finding them - once you get them bunched up and moving they'll usually go pretty calmly - the older ones know right where they're going so usually no big fuss - BUT, I also agree that there are always a few that seem to want to be difficult - you just need to be as gentle as you can and as tough as you need to be - but getting them all riled up right from the start rarely gets you where you need to go.