Genetic inheritance or super freakish coincidence?

[glacierridge]

Just had a heifer the other day have an appropriate sized 45-50 pound heifer calf, but momma pushed out her uterus.
The vet got it back where it belongs, and so far the first calf heifer is hanging in there pretty good.

My questions are... any hereditary connection for this? The dam of this unfortunate creature died from doing this same thing, and my brother is ready to beef out the baby no matter what (potentially a really good heifer, has some nice genetics in her recipe)
Also, what is the success rate of an animal doing this of being able to re-breed (with no repeat of this)?

 

[inyati13]

GRF, the genetic material provides the design and instructions for every cell from the time of conception. "The genome provides the blueprint for form, structure and function." Every protein that is produced in the cell is blueprinted in the genetic material. This goes on during embryonic development and continues until the animal dies and goes back to dust. The uterine problems are related to the genetics of this line of cows. If it is an anatomical or physiological problem, odds are on it being genetic. There are always exceptions. There is the influence of environment. Let us say that there is something being introduced into these cows' systems that is causing the problem such as a chemical or a virus, etc. But if that were the case you would see it in other cows in the same environment. I would cull. You can get a good price for terminal cows and replace them with the proceeds. You can use these opportunities to genetically improve your herd or replace cows with younger more productive animals.

 

[glacierridge]

The thing that gets me is that all the vets I have asked, they all say it's NOT genetic...
??

 

[dun]

The thing that gets me is that all the vets I have asked, they all say it's NOT genetic...
??

They are in denial.

 

[inyati13]

The thing that gets me is that all the vets I have asked, they all say it's NOT genetic...
??

GRF, I have a different opinion. I respect vets more than most people. I went through the same pre-vet classes they did and I did not see many that really set the world afire. If they can forward me a research study to say genetics do not play the primary role, I will tell the world I am wrong.

 

[AllForage]

As long as she recovers she should be able to re-breed.

Vets are invaluable when it comes to health and emergencies. With that said, I don't take any genetic or breeding advice from them. It's not their area of expertise.

 

[glacierridge]

What are the hopes for the little one?
Her sire is a good cow maker...
Or is it advised that she become a ribeye?

 

[dun]

What are the hopes for the little one?
Her sire is a good cow maker...
Or is it advised that she become a ribeye?

I would give her a shot at raising a calf. With the cows that we have had that prolapsed, once the cycle was broken none of the offpsring or following generations have prolapsed. It's kind of a crap shoot, but I wouldn;t breed the mother again.

 

[inyati13]

GRF, think of it this way, for the uterus or vagina to prolapse there has to be a weakness in the connective tissue, anatomy of the organ or physiology of the reproductive system. It would be easy to say that the prolapse is due to a failure of the connective tissue, etc. But the deeper analysis would be that the failure is the result of genes that dictate how the connective tissue is formed and built into the cow. Thus, in the end, there is a snip of DNA that is not doing a good job. Your vet may be correct in so far as saying the uterus prolapsed because the connective tissue that holds it in place failed. But remember, those chemicals that make up that connective tissue are coded in the DNA in the nucleus of the cell. Messenger RNA carries the information to the cytoplasma of the cell and instructs the cell how to make the building blocks of the connective tissue. If that DNA does not transmit a high quality message, then the connective tissue is not as good in the cow that prolapsed as it is in the cow in the next stall that does not have the compromised DNA snip. The cow you reference probably has genes that do not do their job well. I know this is not written as you would get it from a molecular biology or cellular physiology text but the idea is there. Hope I made it clear enough that the message comes across.

 

[inyati13]

What are the hopes for the little one?
Her sire is a good cow maker...
Or is it advised that she become a ribeye?

I would say you can go however you feel comfortable with the little one. Afterall, every single organism on the planet has genetic shortcomings. Every cow out there would be a cull if you had zero tollerence for genetic defects. My point is just that when they are obvious and the effect of the defect clearly diminishes the goals and objectives of your operation, then culling is the right choice. But it is all a choice.

 

[inyati13]

As long as she recovers she should be able to re-breed.

Vets are invaluable when it comes to health and emergencies. With that said, I don't take any genetic or breeding advice from them. It's not their area of expertise.

AllForage, there are vets who specialize in genetics and breeding. I know one that was the professor of Reproductive Physiology at the University of Kentucky. If he don't know breeding then no one would. But in general you are correct. The ones that come to your farm in general practice are rarely experts in a specific area. I had a conversation with a vet in our area on parasites and I can tell you, he did not know parasitology.

 

[robertwhite]

GRF, think of it this way, for the uterus or vagina to prolapse there has to be a weakness in the connective tissue, anatomy of the organ or physiology of the reproductive system. It would be easy to say that the prolapse is due to a failure of the connective tissue, etc. But the deeper analysis would be that the failure is the result of genes that dictate how the connective tissue is formed and built into the cow. Thus, in the end, there is a snip of DNA that is not doing a good job. Your vet may be correct in so far as saying the uterus prolapsed because the connective tissue that holds it in place failed. But remember, those chemicals that make up that connective tissue are coded in the DNA in the nucleus of the cell. Messenger RNA carries the information to the cytoplasma of the cell and instructs the cell how to make the building blocks of the connective tissue. If that DNA does not transmit a high quality message, then the connective tissue is not as good in the cow that prolapsed as it is in the cow in the next stall that does not have the compromised DNA snip. The cow you reference probably has genes that do not do their job well. I know this is not written as you would get it from a molecular biology or cellular physiology text but the idea is there. Hope I made it clear enough that the message comes across.

I was about to start a thread about prolapse and whether you can re-breed a saved momma who has healed and showing zero amount of distress, but I guess I can ask here.

If a cow has prolapsed (obviously a partial, non fatal prolapse), just what are the odds of it happening again?

And to say that it is all genetics is a bit sketchy at best. First, where are the studies pro & con? and in my particular case, I just had a heifer partially prolapse. We were able to get the uterus back in, gave a shot of penicillin to ward off infection and 2.5 weeks later, both the heifer and her calf are doing fine. She is separated from the rest of the herd because my bull is out with the herd AND she is also in with a bottle baby. Now, here's the kicker...........

The bottle baby came from this heifer's mother who also prolapsed (fully & fatal). Both cows are/were around the same size (900-1000 and fairly small framed) and the cow was I believe 7 yrs old. Therfore, she has had 4 calves with no issues whatsoever until this one. So could genetics be a factor? Yes, BUT, why then would the cow be able to produce and raise 4 previous calves without any sign of prolapse? To throw another wrench into it, this particular calf was positioned just fine or so it seemed. When she couldn't deliver, the calf had to be pulled. Now the front have was perfectly positioned, but as the calf came out, I watched the rear half rotate and then come out. So in fact, the rear half was twisted and THAT I believe is the reason she prolapsed. Why did the heifer prolapse? I don't believe I will ever know, and now the decision needs to be made as to let her out and re-breed her, or keep her penned and cull her when the calf goes to market.

 

[inyati13]

GRF, think of it this way, for the uterus or vagina to prolapse there has to be a weakness in the connective tissue, anatomy of the organ or physiology of the reproductive system. It would be easy to say that the prolapse is due to a failure of the connective tissue, etc. But the deeper analysis would be that the failure is the result of genes that dictate how the connective tissue is formed and built into the cow. Thus, in the end, there is a snip of DNA that is not doing a good job. Your vet may be correct in so far as saying the uterus prolapsed because the connective tissue that holds it in place failed. But remember, those chemicals that make up that connective tissue are coded in the DNA in the nucleus of the cell. Messenger RNA carries the information to the cytoplasma of the cell and instructs the cell how to make the building blocks of the connective tissue. If that DNA does not transmit a high quality message, then the connective tissue is not as good in the cow that prolapsed as it is in the cow in the next stall that does not have the compromised DNA snip. The cow you reference probably has genes that do not do their job well. I know this is not written as you would get it from a molecular biology or cellular physiology text but the idea is there. Hope I made it clear enough that the message comes across.

I was about to start a thread about prolapse and whether you can re-breed a saved momma who has healed and showing zero amount of distress, but I guess I can ask here.

If a cow has prolapsed (obviously a partial, non fatal prolapse), just what are the odds of it happening again?

And to say that it is all genetics is a bit sketchy at best. First, where are the studies pro & con? and in my particular case, I just had a heifer partially prolapse. We were able to get the uterus back in, gave a shot of penicillin to ward off infection and 2.5 weeks later, both the heifer and her calf are doing fine. She is separated from the rest of the herd because my bull is out with the herd AND she is also in with a bottle baby. Now, here's the kicker...........

The bottle baby came from this heifer's mother who also prolapsed (fully & fatal). Both cows are/were around the same size (900-1000 and fairly small framed) and the cow was I believe 7 yrs old. Therfore, she has had 4 calves with no issues whatsoever until this one. So could genetics be a factor? Yes, BUT, why then would the cow be able to produce and raise 4 previous calves without any sign of prolapse? To throw another wrench into it, this particular calf was positioned just fine or so it seemed. When she couldn't deliver, the calf had to be pulled. Now the front have was perfectly positioned, but as the calf came out, I watched the rear half rotate and then come out. So in fact, the rear half was twisted and THAT I believe is the reason she prolapsed. Why did the heifer prolapse? I don't believe I will ever know, and now the decision needs to be made as to let her out and re-breed her, or keep her penned and cull her when the calf goes to market.

I google researched prolapse in cattle. I could not find any original research but there were references provided to the articles so generally that means there is research to support the essays/articles. What I read would indicate that prolapse usually results from a physical process similiar to what you have observed and not genetics. That torsion you mentioned from the twisted calf was cited in the two articles I read. I would have to standdown. Maybe genetics plays a lessor role than the physical process a delivery can present to a cow/heifer. Thanks.

 

[dun]

Maybe genetics plays a lessor role than the physical process a delivery can present to a cow/heifer. Thanks.

Except for a 800 lb heifer that had a 120 lb calf pulled and prolapsed, all of the others we have had were all sired by the same bull and out of cows that outlived the offspring.

 

[inyati13]

Maybe genetics plays a lessor role than the physical process a delivery can present to a cow/heifer. Thanks.

Except for a 800 lb heifer that had a 120 lb calf pulled and prolapsed, all of the others we have had were all sired by the same bull and out of cows that outlived the offspring.

That says something. I bet the root to it in many cases is genetic, but I will admit I am wrong.

 

[robertwhite]

Maybe genetics plays a lessor role than the physical process a delivery can present to a cow/heifer. Thanks.

Except for a 800 lb heifer that had a 120 lb calf pulled and prolapsed, all of the others we have had were all sired by the same bull and out of cows that outlived the offspring.

I'm confused. (maybe my brain isn't firing 100% either )

Are you saying that your bull is the cause of the prolapses (genetics) or are you saying it is just fate/age (physical)?

And I know you have previously said you have sold prolapsed cows, but is it because you feel they will do it again, or is it because you feel it is genetically prudent? And have you ever kept one that has prolapsed and if so, what was the outcome?

 

[inyati13]

Robert, I took it that he was making a genetic connection between the bull and the prolapses.

I will also add that I still think there is a mechanism for genetics affecting prolapse but accept that it seems to be predominantly caused by physical forces in the way you described your experience.

 

[Chris H]

Just had a heifer the other day have an appropriate sized 45-50 pound heifer calf, but momma pushed out her uterus.
The vet got it back where it belongs, and so far the first calf heifer is hanging in there pretty good.

My questions are... any hereditary connection for this? The dam of this unfortunate creature died from doing this same thing, and my brother is ready to beef out the baby no matter what (potentially a really good heifer, has some nice genetics in her recipe)
Also, what is the success rate of an animal doing this of being able to re-breed (with no repeat of this)?

It's generally believed that uterine prolapses are not genetically related, but vaginal prolapses are. That said, coincidences are hard to dismiss as pure random events. If your calf grows well, I'd give her a chance. I'd be more cautious about giving the 2 year old another chance since her mother also prolapsed. Were there any contributing factors to the 2 year old prolapsing? Was she over/under weight? Was she stressed in any other way? Was the calf too large for her, even though it was a small calf?

 

[dun]

Maybe genetics plays a lessor role than the physical process a delivery can present to a cow/heifer. Thanks.

Except for a 800 lb heifer that had a 120 lb calf pulled and prolapsed, all of the others we have had were all sired by the same bull and out of cows that outlived the offspring.

I'm confused. (maybe my brain isn't firing 100% either )

Are you saying that your bull is the cause of the prolapses (genetics) or are you saying it is just fate/age (physical)?

And I know you have previously said you have sold prolapsed cows, but is it because you feel they will do it again, or is it because you feel it is genetically prudent? And have you ever kept one that has prolapsed and if so, what was the outcome?

We kept one that prolapsed, she did it again the following year. All of the bulls daughters prolapsed, the one we kept afterards to calve again was Grannys first daughter.

 

[AllForage]

As long as she recovers she should be able to re-breed.

Vets are invaluable when it comes to health and emergencies. With that said, I don't take any genetic or breeding advice from them. It's not their area of expertise.

AllForage, there are vets who specialize in genetics and breeding. I know one that was the professor of Reproductive Physiology at the University of Kentucky. If he don't know breeding then no one would. But in general you are correct. The ones that come to your farm in general practice are rarely experts in a specific area. I had a conversation with a vet in our area on parasites and I can tell you, he did not know parasitology.