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Gelbvieh on wf Cows

Stocker Steve

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I currently have a herd of hereford/angus or hereford/shorthorn cross cows. They are quiet cows that run 1100 to 1300 pounds. On average, how much difference would I see in birth weight, weaning weight, and mature size between a Gelbvieh vs. Angus herd sire?
 

S&S Farms

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What is your goal with the females from these breedings?

If replacements is a goal then I think gelvieh would work well. I am assuming you are going to use the non traditional black gelvieh over the "yellow cow" original gelvieh.

I cant answer the weight difference part of your question. I havea neighbor that runs gelvieh's and they seem to be good mothers and are quiet. in the 1150 to 1350 lb range

Jeff
 

Aaron

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Don't think you can go wrong with either. Gelbvieh weights will typically be higher across the board, but their are some more moderate lines that will keep your mature weights in check. If you have a lot of Herf/Shortie cows, and are looking to just sell calves off of them, I would recommend a good easy calving Char bull. That makes a combo I just drool over. My favorite cross cows are Hereford/Short...can breed 'em to anything and give exactly what the market wants. :cowboy:
 

3waycross

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As with almost all things you can find almost anything you want in a Gelbvieh bull. There are some Gelbvieh's that have calving ease numbers as good as any Angus out there, but they might not have great growth numbers. There are also some Gelbvieh bulls that will give you a lot of growth but not be as user friendly when it comes to calving.

Like has already been asked what do you want for an end result, terminal or maternal? Black or Red? The blacks run about 94 to 97% pure as far as heterosis is concerned, you will get plenty, plus better numbers for carcass traits. The reds tend to be more pure Gelbvieh and will have growth but maybe not as good for marbling.

For the most part they are calm cattle and easy to handle. I know I will get flamed for saying this but I personally believe a Gelbvieh bull will work a lot harder for you than an Angus. He'll also breed all of your neighbors cows when he's done with yours. LOL

We are running a lot of the crosses you mention. After 3 years of breeding shorthorn cows to a Gelbvieh bull we have gone back now to a Red Angus bull. We bred a lot of our GelbviehxShorthorn heifers to Blk Angus bulls with the resulting calves being very growthy and vigorous. It's a very good 3 way cross and should maximize your heterosis.

Here is the Gelbvieh bull that I am gonna AI my registered Gelbvieh cows to this year. I wouldn't use him on heifers but on anything else he would be great. He has some of the best growth and carcass numbers in the breed and is sure not bad for birth weight and calving ease.

http://bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=185
 

Stocker Steve

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3waycross":11kri43w said:
We are running a lot of the crosses you mention. After 3 years of breeding shorthorn cows to a Gelbvieh bull we have gone back now to a Red Angus bull. We bred a lot of our GelbviehxShorthorn heifers to Blk Angus bulls with the resulting calves being very growthy and vigorous. It's a very good 3 way cross and should maximize your heterosis.

I am looking for black calves and want to keep some moderate sized hiefers. A neighbor just sold some red Gelbvieh cross cows but I passed on them. They raised great muscular calves, but they were 1500 to 1600 pounds and he feed corn silage to keep them in condition.

Why did you go back to RA from Gelbvieh?
 

3waycross

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Stocker Steve":anltle85 said:
3waycross":anltle85 said:
We are running a lot of the crosses you mention. After 3 years of breeding shorthorn cows to a Gelbvieh bull we have gone back now to a Red Angus bull. We bred a lot of our GelbviehxShorthorn heifers to Blk Angus bulls with the resulting calves being very growthy and vigorous. It's a very good 3 way cross and should maximize your heterosis.

I am looking for black calves and want to keep some moderate sized hiefers. A neighbor just sold some red Gelbvieh cross cows but I passed on them. They raised great muscular calves, but they were 1500 to 1600 pounds and he feed corn silage to keep them in condition.

Why did you go back to RA from Gelbvieh?


For the heterosis and because we wanted to try the RA crossed on the straight Shorthorn cows and the crosses. We are AI'ing all of our Registered Gelbvieh's to The bull shown above. Also cuz we liked the calves off of the angus heifer bull we used last year. We will probably raise our next herd bull for the commercial herd off of the registered Gelbvieh cows.

You will find a ton of difference in the Gelbvieh breed in individual herds. When I bought my gelbvieh's I looked at 2 herds a mile apart and the cows in the herd I purchased from avg around 1200lbs. The herd up the road avg'd 1350 to 1500lbs. Easy descision for me. From what I have read tho the Gelbvieh's will normally downsize a herd faster than most continental breeds. This is exactly what happened for us over the last 3 years. Most of our replacement heifers are a little smaller ( and a lot fleshier) than their straight Shorthorn mothers.
 

KNERSIE

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Here is the Gelbvieh bull that I am gonna AI my registered Gelbvieh cows to this year. I wouldn't use him on heifers but on anything else he would be great. He has some of the best growth and carcass numbers in the breed and is sure not bad for birth weight and calving ease.

http://bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=185

Don't you think he borders on too much rear leg set?
 

3waycross

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KNERSIE":1yjfd952 said:
Here is the Gelbvieh bull that I am gonna AI my registered Gelbvieh cows to this year. I wouldn't use him on heifers but on anything else he would be great. He has some of the best growth and carcass numbers in the breed and is sure not bad for birth weight and calving ease.

http://bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=185

Don't you think he borders on too much rear leg set?

Yes he probably does. But we don't have a cow in the registered herd that has any issues in that regard so it's not a deal breaker for me. ALL of his epd's and other phsical attributes make me willing to take the chance that his offspring will be alright. We can always cull anything that is too bad in the rear. I want the other things he brings to the table enough to risk it.
 

dun

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I don;t know if it's dumb (bad) luck, but all of our F1s turn out bigger then either of the parents.
I have to amend that: A F! sired by 774 turned out smaller then her dam but I don;t know what size he is. The daughter is about a 5 and the cows is about a 6.
 

double v

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On the W/F cows I would use a red gelbvieh bull, raising reg. gelbviehs i will tell you that a truer product comes out of the reds. To go along with Dun I have seen it to in the blacks and sometimes its just the combos with genetics. There are many good red bulls in the gelbvieh breed. If black is what you want AMGV896048, 978628, 655256 OR CAROLINA CPR will do you right. Good luck and keep us posted if you need some red bull references let me know I'm pretty familiar with them.
 

cowman30

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Stocker Steve":nfe4i6pj said:
3waycross":nfe4i6pj said:
We are running a lot of the crosses you mention. After 3 years of breeding shorthorn cows to a Gelbvieh bull we have gone back now to a Red Angus bull. We bred a lot of our GelbviehxShorthorn heifers to Blk Angus bulls with the resulting calves being very growthy and vigorous. It's a very good 3 way cross and should maximize your heterosis.

I am looking for black calves and want to keep some moderate sized hiefers. A neighbor just sold some red Gelbvieh cross cows but I passed on them. They raised great muscular calves, but they were 1500 to 1600 pounds and he feed corn silage to keep them in condition.

Why did you go back to RA from Gelbvieh?

If you are going to be breeding red carrier cows to a black bull and you want to use Gelbvieh he better be homozygous black or you will get some red calves. Weaning weights I would think would be 50-maybe even 100 pounds more than straight Angus.
 

3waycross

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In our case we had so much red in the herd that it didn't matter. The Gelbvieh bull we used was hetero blk and also hetero polled. from that perspective he was a train wreck we ended up with horns on everything. The RA bull will take care of that and around here GOOD red calves bring within a nickle of the blacks so it doesn't matter.

To tell the truth I own blk cows and red cows and I'd rather look at the red ones any day of the week, and I'm just stubborn enuf to be willing to pay the price.

For the record he did add 50 to 100 lbs to every calf he threw, over the straight shorthorns bulls that came before him. Also to be fair this herd was pretty inbred so they were definately ripe for a bunch of heterosis.

I have a tendency to agree with Double V on the issue of using Red(original) Gelbvieh's on your cows but I believe and the numbers will agree that you will get a little better carcass traits from the blks, and yes you may as well look for one that is Homo blk and Homo polled, that's why I recomended the two that I did.

I don't know if you are willing to travel to Colo for a bull but if you are there is a sale over on the western slope that features some good bulls from the breeder where I got mine(Mark Covington) he and a few others are trying real hard to create calving ease maternal GV bulls without losing the growth that makes them such good cattle.
 

jcarkie

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i am a big fan of gelb, i have some gelbx cows. i am using hereford bulls now but would like to put a gelb bull on thec baldy heifers. what about judd ranch bulls in kansas www.juddranchinc.com ??? any experience with them. i get their catalog and news letter. look like good cattle, but everybody advertises the best.
 

double v

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Judd ranch has some of the best gelbvieh cattle around, it all depends on what your looking for. EPD's in growth, YW ,CE, milk to name a few. Are you looking for a blk bull or red bull. Private message me and i'll see if i could help you in your search.
 

jcarkie

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i like red cattle but would probably buy black for todays market. i would use on my mature cow groups for sale. but would keep heifers, because the gelbX i have now make great cows.
 

3waycross

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Thought ya'll might like a timely Gelbvieh story.

I fed tonight with my DIL it was her first time feeding cattle and I was explaining what we look for in the heifers and cows that were about to give birth. Saw one of the partners reg 8 yr old Gelbvieh cows in the pinion trees looking kinda froggy on the way in. By the time I got the truck loaded she had come over with the rest of the cows but was not eating she definately looked to be in labor but was elusive so I left her alone, and on the way out the gate my DIL says to me the cow is headed back to the trees.

Passed the partner down the road a ways and thought I'd call him in a bit to check on her this was at 4:57PM. Exactly 33 minutes later he calles me and says 044N just dropped an 85 lb heifer. When we left there was nothing showing at all she squirted out that little beauty in less than 30 minutes. I guess there's no substitute for experience. She also stood there and just glared at my partner 30min after the blessed event while he tagged and weighed her calf. The neat part of this story is we have only had her for about 3 weeks.

You gotta love those Gelbvieh cows.
 

hillsdown

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3waycross":f3a87292 said:
Here's another bull you might want to consider. He is on my short list also. Especially if you are looking to keep some heifers. His CED numbers are outstanding. He is also behind a lot of real good bulls.

http://bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=102


He looks good I think I am going to ask if my semen provider can get him for me. I was thinking of using JRI fully Exposed this year on my reg. Blk Gelbvieh's but the accuracy is not that great.

I am really [email protected] off with Westgen/Semex though as they are only offering 3 bulls in their semen catalog this year.. Not much to choose from.

Has anyone used ZTM McCoy Signature 178S ???
He is really young BD is May '06. His Dam was the 2006 Agribition Grand Champion Female.

3way, I love my Gelbvieh's too they sure make life easier especially when you have to do things by yourself. :)
 

dun

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hillsdown":6rvvb9mp said:
3waycross":6rvvb9mp said:
Here's another bull you might want to consider. He is on my short list also. Especially if you are looking to keep some heifers. His CED numbers are outstanding. He is also behind a lot of real good bulls.

http://bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=102


He looks good I think I am going to ask if my semen provider can get him for me. I was thinking of using JRI fully Exposed this year on my reg. Blk Gelbvieh's but the accuracy is not that great.

I am really [email protected] off with Westgen/Semex though as they are only offering 3 bulls in their semen catalog this year.. Not much to choose from.

Has anyone used ZTM McCoy Signature 178S ???
He is really young BD is May '06. His Dam was the 2006 Agribition Grand Champion Female.

3way, I love my Gelbvieh's too they sure make life easier especially when you have to do things by yourself. :)
Seems like BAS has the widest selection of bulls other then bullbarn.com
 
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