Gas or worse?

[littleblessingsfarms]

Tonight, I fed Norman and after he ate, he was shaky, slobbering some, and lethargic so I took his temp and it is 104.2. Called the vet and they said basically wait and see. The other day when I called, another vet in the same practice who I usually deal with told me if his temp went over 102.5 to get him on antibiotics ASAP. This one was on call and I haven't dealt with her as much so I am not 100% comfortable with her opinion. Wanted to run it by others who know what they are doing to see what you all think. She said at 5 days old the temp sensor so to say isn't always accurate and they can vary in body temp. But she also mentioned the possibility of him being septic. He seemed perfectly normal at the 2:00 feeding and was fine at 5 when I checked on him. He also kind of panted a bit right after the bottle just now and hung his head down. I "burped" him and he did belch several times. Not that I usually burp the cow but he seemed uncomfortable and it seem logical to me since he bolts his bottles. . The vet asked why I took his temp and it was because he wasn't acting normal and his ears were cold feeling which usually is a sign of something wrong if they are normally warm. Also, he is functioning normally for bathroom issues now. Is there something I am missing or anything that comes to mind for any of you all or is he just having a normal downswing in the course of life? His capillary refill in his gums was normal too. But his tongue was hanging out more than normally. Kind of like he didn't have the strength to keep it in.

 

[larryshoat]

I disagree with the vet. At 104.2 Norman needs to be treated. Are you sure he is not scouring, often it can be so runny you don't see it . The cold ears possibly indicate low cardiac output, caused by dehydration. Just some thoughts.

Larry

 

[littleblessingsfarms]

That is what I thought. I have been picking patties of pellets out of the straw so he isn't having diarrhea. I toed around and found urine so he is putting out there. I was concerned maybe kidney failure since I hadn't seen him pee. The problem is I can't get antibiotics without the vet and she doesn't seem to want to mess with it. It is too late here for any feed stores to be open. We are in Ohio. Usually if they are peeing, they are okay on hydration aren't they? Will the pinch test work on a calf? I will go see if that is normal or not.

 

[dun]

103.5 in a calf is considered more or less normal. Their temp is higher then an older animal. The problem is I've never seen anthgin that spells out when they quit being a calf so the temp shoudl be lower. If he's the same in the morning get ahold of another vet. The lethargic part concerns me. Pneumonia can hit the little guys so darn fast. I've alwasy wondered why bottle calves tend to be more sensitive to it then calves in the pasture on the cow. (the last part is a misc. thought)

 

[littleblessingsfarms]

My guess on the pneumonia in bottle babies is that they are not fed in a natural position most the time. We tend to bring the bottle straight into the mouth and when they nurse naturally it is lower and at an angle. I would guess they tend to aspirate fluids hence the problem.
He is better this AM but still at the 104 temp. Last night, I brought him in the house and slept beside him. He was pretty active and woke me up at 6AM for breakfast. Ate fine and wandered around for a while then laid down and went to sleep. I am cautiously optimistic right now that it isn't serious. His BM has been a little mushy, yellow & thick like it was at first, but no different odor. And he peed like three times overnight including one this AM that lasted forever so I am pretty sure he isn't dehydrated. The one strange thing about him is he goes around with his tongue hanging out, not a little but maybe as much as three inches. Is this normal in any way?

 

[dun]

You bring a calf in the house and sleep beside him and you ask if his tongue position is normal?

 

[Alice]

His tongue hanging out like this is not normal. Is he panting?

Bottom line, were it me, I'd hit him with some nuflor and banamine...and a big dose of probios. Call the vet and ask if you can pick up the nuflor and banamine. You can get the probios at a feed store or tractor supply. AND, while you have the vet on the phone, tell him/her that this has gotten past the wait and see stage.

Alice

 

[littleblessingsfarms]

You bring a calf in the house and sleep beside him and you ask if his tongue position is normal?

And the problem is? I want him alive, I have an area in my furnace room where he is warm and dry and since I have the $$ and time invested, I would like a return on my investment. Obviously I am not a pro at this which is why I am asking some questions here. Isn't that the goal here, to help ALL cattle owners? Or should I go elsewhere?

 

[littleblessingsfarms]

His tongue hanging out like this is not normal. Is he panting?

Bottom line, were it me, I'd hit him with some nuflor and banamine...and a big dose of probios. Call the vet and ask if you can pick up the nuflor and banamine. You can get the probios at a feed store or tractor supply. AND, while you have the vet on the phone, tell him/her that this has gotten past the wait and see stage.

Alice

I have banamine for the horses, is it the same stuff? hit him with probios and I started him on terramyacin since he is wheezing some now and with the fever, I am treating it as pneumonia. His chest is a bit rattly and he is snotting and drooling a lot. I also am propping him up off his side as he seems to breathe better that way. He eases a lot when I get him up on his stomach.

 

[Alice]

His tongue hanging out like this is not normal. Is he panting?

Bottom line, were it me, I'd hit him with some nuflor and banamine...and a big dose of probios. Call the vet and ask if you can pick up the nuflor and banamine. You can get the probios at a feed store or tractor supply. AND, while you have the vet on the phone, tell him/her that this has gotten past the wait and see stage.

Alice

I have banamine for the horses, is it the same stuff? hit him with probios and I started him on terramyacin since he is wheezing some now and with the fever, I am treating it as pneumonia. His chest is a bit rattly and he is snotting and drooling a lot. I also am propping him up off his side as he seems to breathe better that way. He eases a lot when I get him up on his stomach.

If the calf is wheezing, snotting and sounds rattly, he needs some prescription antibiotics...like Nuflor or Baytril or Draxxin. The banamine is the same for horses and cattle...and it acts as an anti inflammatory...and will help the calf feel easier. Do not give it over a prolonged period of time as it can cause stomach problems much like aspirin.

The antibiotics that can be bought at Tractor Supply or feed stores are not going to touch pneumonia in that calf. That's why I'm suggesting you contact the vet and ask him/her to sell you a bottle of nuflor or baytril. And, as always, no matter what type of antibiotic you use, give probios.

Alice

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Sure sounds like he is going into pneumonia. One cause of this can be keeping them in too warm and humid of an environment. Yes if he is ill warmth is good, but often we think they should be way more "cozy" than they need to be. Enclosed livestock structures can be full of ammonia and that is REALLY bad for the lungs. Just FYI - sounds like you are doing what you can. Good luck.

 

[larryshoat]

Norman needed a shot of good antibiotic about 2 days ago. The TM is probably not going to get the job done . You need something like Draxxin, Nuflor, Baytril, A180, Micotil, one of these. Not impressed with your vet. If they don't come through, try calling someone in your area that has cattle and see if they have one of the ones on this list. Use the Banamine, he needs relief.

Larry