Gardiner - Select Sires - GAR ANTICIPATION

[DOC HARRIS]

This bears repeating - again - and - again!

This bull (and many like him) is a FUNNEL BUTT!

Successful BEEF producers must consider carefully what their purposes are and what they are attempting to do in the beef business before jumping in and buying or using a bull (or a female) for seedstock just because some advertisement blows smoke up your silo! Think! Learn what the important cuts of meat are on a carcass, and then select breeding animals that will produce progeny which will display those PROFITABLE cuts of meat in a meat case! Now isn't that why you are in the beef producing business? And - - surprise - surprise - surprise!! You might even make a profit for a change! Now, wouldn't that justify a little thought about what protocols you may employ BEFORE using a bull because Jim Bob down the road told you that was what you should do? :bang:

Think for yourself! And pay attention to what a lot of informed producers on CattleToday suggest. They are not all wrong - despite what you may think! :deadhorse:

DOC HARRIS

 

[thommoos]

No, he said the #1 semen seller in the Hereford breed, not just what Select Sires sell.

That is disturbing to me that there are that many folks out there who are so ignorant of what is correct functional structure and/or so enamored with blue box EPDs that this bull would get sny use at all.

This is easily accomplished by friends. Once at a breeders sale they sold the bull for 60K, then turned around and started selling semen to the starry eyed little breeders and sold 55k in semen that afternoon. Merketing , Marketing. when his pos calves hit the ground he will go by the way side. Unless they are betting on some kind of genetic overide to happen. The bull is not balanced Doc is 100 % corrected Funnel Butt.

 

[Till-Hill]

I'm not saying I love the bull but holy smokes guys top what 5% CED, WW, YW, Marb, what else do you want in a bull? Who give a darn what he looks like if your selling feedlot cattle that are growing. His EPD's must be Genomic enhanced as he is like 40% accurate and should have a few calves on the ground.

I think one thing most of you are forgetting is he is a fall bull in dryland country and Select feeds their bulls for production NOT the show ring.

I'll bet anybody that bull ain't going anywhere and some of you will end up using him.

 

[Jake]

I'm not saying I love the bull but holy smokes guys top what 5% CED, WW, YW, Marb, what else do you want in a bull? Who give a darn what he looks like if your selling feedlot cattle that are growing. His EPD's must be Genomic enhanced as he is like 40% accurate and should have a few calves on the ground.

I think one thing most of you are forgetting is he is a fall bull in dryland country and Select feeds their bulls for production NOT the show ring.

I'll bet anybody that bull ain't going anywhere and some of you will end up using him.

This right here is the entire problem with breeding for numbers. You better give a darn what they look like if you are selling feedlot cattle as muscle weighs more than fat and that bull has horrible muscle expression. I don't give a rats behind if he has big numbers if it is all in frame bone and tallow.

 

[fitz]

Just started reading this thread. The numbers look pretty good on the bull. I don't think he actually looks that bad in the pic. either.
As a disclaimer, I don't raise bulls, am certainly not as cattle savy as most here and apparently have lower standards. Proves I have a lot to work on.

fitz

 

[alexfarms]

I'm not saying I love the bull but holy smokes guys top what 5% CED, WW, YW, Marb, what else do you want in a bull? Who give a darn what he looks like if your selling feedlot cattle that are growing. His EPD's must be Genomic enhanced as he is like 40% accurate and should have a few calves on the ground.

I think one thing most of you are forgetting is he is a fall bull in dryland country and Select feeds their bulls for production NOT the show ring.

I'll bet anybody that bull ain't going anywhere and some of you will end up using him.

This right here is the entire problem with breeding for numbers. You better give a darn what they look like if you are selling feedlot cattle as muscle weighs more than fat and that bull has horrible muscle expression. I don't give a rats behind if he has big numbers if it is all in frame bone and tallow.

The bull is not in slaughter condition. There is no reason why he should be. If he was fed out he'd put on a lot if weight (including muscle) and you would like his appearance a lot better.

So much of our marketing is based on appearances. I think we'd all agree we like to judge them based on their finished condition. That's not a practical expectation. That is why we collect the objective data. It would be interesting to see a pic of him when he weighed that 1200+ pounds as a yearling. Can anyone dig that up?

 

[Jake]

Looks younger in that picture, can't be sure; but defending this bull is a joke. If he was on the craiglist gems thread he would be pulled apart but since he has "great numbers" people praise him. Give me a break. There are thousands of better bulls in the breed, no reason to use this steer.

 

[alexfarms]

Looks younger in that picture, can't be sure; but defending this bull is a joke. If he was on the craiglist gems thread he would be pulled apart but since he has "great numbers" people praise him. Give me a break. There are thousands of better bulls in the breed, no reason to use this steer.

What's got me wondering is he fits the type that has been showing up as top "carcass" bulls. So much if what we do in the cattle business is based on visual appraisal that I think it is worth noting his type. Whether his epds prove out, we'll just have to see. If his type don't prove out in the feed yard and his epds hold up, I'd say there is a problem with the epds. It's just interesting to me that so many of us find him unattractive, but his epds say we should like him.

 

[Jake]

What's got me wondering is he fits the type that has been showing up as top "carcass" bulls. So much if what we do in the cattle business is based on visual appraisal that I think it is worth noting his type. Whether his epds prove out, we'll just have to see. If his type don't prove out in the feed yard and his epds hold up, I'd say there is a problem with the epds. It's just interesting to me that so many of us find him unattractive, but his epds say we should like him.

It goes back to what DOC says, single trait selection is a killer. When they are trying to hard to have the highest carcass traits they leave all the functionality behind. Same goes on the opposite end of the spectrum. When you try to breed so extremely for fleshing ability and leave performance in the dirt.

 

[Till-Hill]

I don't like the looks of these "carcass" bulls either. But I sure do like his calving ease and growth numbers. I doubt I will use him as I have alot of Objective in my herd already.

When his calves sell I bet you the feedlot guys love them tho. But I tend to breed more for cow herd and use steers as a byproduct of that.

There are alot of good looking cattle out there too that don't have functional traits too that I see anymore.

To each is there own but I'm still betting on this guy selling alot of juice this year.

 

[cow pollinater]

I don't like the bull myself but you can't blame select for having him on the lineup. Their purpose is not to only provide bulls that are perfectly balanced, their purpose is to put enough bulls on their line-up that they can walk into just about any herd that wants to buy angus semen and have something to sell and the sad fact is that there are a whole lot of people AI'ing cows out there that only look at numbers on paper and wouldn't know how to pick a bull if they didn't have numbers to look at... That's not Select's problem to fix, it's just their job to have something to offer to people whose idea of a good bull is numbers and they've done that with this bull.

 

[Dave]

There are bulls in Select Sires line up with better numbers on paper who are also better looking bulls. Look through their line up. There are bull with better calving ease numbers who also have better growth numbers. I don't think this one will stay around too long unless someone is into to him too deep and needs to some how get some money back out of him.

 

[cow pollinater]

There are bulls in Select Sires line up with better numbers on paper who are also better looking bulls. Look through their line up. There are bull with better calving ease numbers who also have better growth numbers. I don't think this one will stay around too long unless someone is into to him too deep and needs to some how get some money back out of him.

I just went and glanced at their lineup. It has changed a lot since the last time I looked and the trend I see is high marbling numbers. This bull being on the line-up makes sense from a sales standpoint as they can(and will I'm sure) compare the average of their entire lineup to that of other studs and use it as an entry point to start conversations with bigger herds before they start looking at individual bulls so any bull they can get their hands on with tons of marbling and WW makes it to the line-up because he'll bump the average. If that's the case I'm surprised to see select doing it as in the past bulls in their line-up have all had something to offer beyond numbers by themselves. A few other companies are famous for it.

 

[Jake]

Looking at the GAR bulls in the lineup they are obviously all average boosters.

 

[polledbull]

i have raised better bulls here on my farm , he is not even average looking for a herd bull, he has no business in the semen book

 

[blacksnake]

GAR 5050 Data Manager also has very good numbers, looks better than Anticipation but still not very muscular. He is ABS, Origen.

 

[Chuckie]

All farms do not have 100% superior-cookie cutter calves. The excellent EPD's numbers thare passed down from the parents, but not all the genetics were received. That is why we should be very careful when choosing what we breed to. Just because the numbers on the papers are there, it doesn't mean that the bull will pass it on to your calf, as he didn't receive it himself.

The bull is in good shape, with a healthy layer of fat. You cannot add the muscle or lengthen the hip, or make a muscle grow from his rump to his hock by just putting on more weight. His rump will not stick out further, it will stay in the same proportion.
No matter how much fat you add to him, he will still look the same, just fatter.
The bull is just too light muscled to improve your cows. Go with a higher octane bull as there are many.

 

[mwj]

Well at least he wasn't walking in knee deep straw. That should help some on semen sales! :cowboy:

 

[JHH]

Sickle hocked is what I see right away. Then I see if his growth numbers are so great how come he looks like he does? He is nothing more than epd chasing at its finest. Not even a good steer. Wait it came from Gardeners so it must b good. My bad

 

[Chuckie]

MWJ, you got that right!