Frame size vs Longevity

[Nesikep]

highgrit's thread made me think back to which cows I had that got old and stayed productive.

I found medium sized cows (Frame 5-6) typically seem to last longer than big cows... anyone else found that? I've never had small cows to compare to.

 

[Taurus]

Frame doesn't matter as long as they raise a calf every year and they do their job. Culling process claimed more lives than the old age.

 

[Aaron]

A lot of the big framed cows are culled to arthritis and joint issues. Same with bulls. 2000 lbers are more agile than 3000 lbers of the same age.

 

[Waterway65]

I think femininity is far more important to herd longevity than frame. Cows lacking femininity seem to fail to breed or milk causing them to leave the herd early.

 

[Taurus]

A lot of the big framed cows are culled to arthritis and joint issues. Same with bulls. 2000 lbers are more agile than 3000 lbers of the same age.

Seen plenty of moderate framed cows with arthritis and joint issues.

 

[Aaron]

A lot of the big framed cows are culled to arthritis and joint issues. Same with bulls. 2000 lbers are more agile than 3000 lbers of the same age.

Seen plenty of moderate framed cows with arthritis and joint issues.

Seen some too. Even had one I can remember myself, but each one I remember had underlying confirmation issues that led to the arthritis. Cull it out and it's not a problem.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Longevity seems to be part genetic, and part environment. I have seen more larger frame older Brangus cows than smaller ones.
Does this mean that the larger girls genetically lean more toward the Brahman side? I don't know.

I also think that how they are fed and where they live can play a role in longevity. Obviously a cow that is over, as well as under weight is going to breakdown. Those battling rough terrain or extreme weather may breakdown sooner.

I think there are a number of factors that influence longevity, more so than "frame size."

 

[Nesikep]

If I look at the 3 oldest cows we had, all 3 were moderate frames... None of the 3 typically were typically in the top tier for weaning weights, but were consistently good (they wouldn't have stuck around if not).
There are certainly a lot of factors affecting longevity, I was just wondering if it was a pattern.

 

[Taurus]

If I look at the 3 oldest cows we had, all 3 were moderate frames... None of the 3 typically were typically in the top tier for weaning weights, but were consistently good (they wouldn't have stuck around if not).
There are certainly a lot of factors affecting longevity, I was just wondering if it was a pattern.

Right now, we have three large framed cows that are 13 years old and still in great shape. Always get bred on time and raise a good calf. No signs of joint issues or arthritis so far.

 

[Son of Butch]

Anecdotal evidence is hardly convincing, BUT I agree with Aaron and Nesikep.
Well balanced animals have an advantage in reaching max productive life and by definition extreme animals that are well balanced are fewer and farther between.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Anecdotal evidence is hardly convincing, BUT I agree with Aaron and Nesikep.
Well balanced animals have an advantage in reaching max productive life and by definition extreme animals that are well balanced are fewer and farther between.

The older style Brangus were all "larger framed" cattle. They were not considered "extreme". It was their norm. It has just been the past 5 years or so that people have been on the "moderation" bandwagon and insist that they "should be smaller to be more efficient". If they are not careful, they will loose all of the characteristics that make Brangus cattle, "Brangus."

 

[Nesikep]

I found around here about 12-14 is when they really start to show their age.. I have a few bigger 11 year olds that are doing well, but we'll see how they do in 5 years

 

[ANAZAZI]

Several factors come into play here. Within the population it is more likely that the most common frame size is the most successfull frame size, kind of like the best quality in a breed usually is found among the most common colour of that breed, statistics really. A long lived Brangus may have a different frame than a long lived Hereford, simply because at a certain frame there are more cows for time to chose from.

Environment might make you cull bigger individuals faster on one farm than on another - if the optimal size is different - even if the breeders have the same taste in frame size.

Neither nature nor a sensible culling protocol favours extremes.

 

[bulldurham]

Anecdotal evidence is hardly convincing, BUT I agree with Aaron and Nesikep.
Well balanced animals have an advantage in reaching max productive life and by definition extreme animals that are well balanced are fewer and farther between.

The older style Brangus were all "larger framed" cattle. They were not considered "extreme". It was their norm. It has just been the past 5 years or so that people have been on the "moderation" bandwagon and insist that they "should be smaller to be more efficient". If they are not careful, they will loose all of the characteristics that make Brangus cattle, "Brangus."

If they don't comply, Brangus will go the way of the Gerts/ dodo birds

 

[greatgerts]

Anecdotal evidence is hardly convincing, BUT I agree with Aaron and Nesikep.
Well balanced animals have an advantage in reaching max productive life and by definition extreme animals that are well balanced are fewer and farther between.

The older style Brangus were all "larger framed" cattle. They were not considered "extreme". It was their norm. It has just been the past 5 years or so that people have been on the "moderation" bandwagon and insist that they "should be smaller to be more efficient". If they are not careful, they will loose all of the characteristics that make Brangus cattle, "Brangus."

If they don't comply, Brangus will go the way of the Gerts/ dodo birds

Care to elaborate bulldurham?

 

[bulldurham]

I don't see near the number of Gert cattle that I did 15 years ago. In fact, I don't see near the number of any of the Brahma composite breeds anymore. Brangus, True Braford, Gerts, Beefmaster. It's my opinion that this is a result of these breeds not moderating their cattle soon enough. Many of these cattle, if not most, have too much frame and as people become more and more conscious of 'the cost of production,' at least what I see, Is a push to transition to straight British bulls.

 

[ANAZAZI]

I don't see near the number of Gert cattle that I did 15 years ago. In fact, I don't see near the number of any of the Brahma composite breeds anymore. Brangus, True Braford, Gerts, Beefmaster. It's my opinion that this is a result of these breeds not moderating their cattle soon enough. Many of these cattle, if not most, have too much frame and as people become more and more conscious of 'the cost of production,' at least what I see, Is a push to transition to straight British bulls.

This tendency might very well have more to do with feeders "docking for too much ear" than frame score.

 

[bulldurham]

Nah, 3/8 or 3/16 brahman calves don't receive any dock here. It has more to do with not wanting to buy hay for their 6-7 frame dams.

 

[branguscowgirl]

The subject of "larger framed cattle needing more hay to maintain body condition" has been discussed here enough, so I won't even bother to argue the point again........I think that we all know where we each stand on that idea. :roll:

 

[Taurus]

The subject of "larger framed cattle needing more hay to maintain body condition" has been discussed here enough, so I won't even bother to argue the point again........I think that we all know where we each stand on that idea. :roll:

Yup, I don't believe that the frame is the reason why gerts went "extinct". But then again our old dear Massey135 hasn't around with cattle enough.