Fort Worth rodeo

[cross_7]

They took another ones head off today I believe.

You're just being paranoid, intolerant and judgemental ;-)

 

[backhoeboogie]

They took another ones head off today I believe.

You're just being paranoid, intolerant and judgemental ;-)

Will the other 90% have them banished or will they rationalize why this occurs?

 

[Commercialfarmer]

The part you left out was were you enlightened everyone to the fact that the word "God"- comes from the pagan deity "Gott"


You can attempt to play a semantics game all you want but the FACT is:

All Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) recognize that THE CREATOR (whether you want to refer to this omnipresent as "Allah" or "God" makes no difference) is the "God of Abraham, the God of Issac, and God of Jacob."

Some doctrines are dangerous. To claim that all are the same isn't wise. The first terrorist attack on our country's trade by Islam wasn't on 9/11/2011, it was 1784. If you haven't read about the first Barbary war- the line in the Marine hymn- the shores of Tripoli is about that terrorism on our merchant ships. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War To see how this is very consistent with a particular belief, skip to the bottom.

I'll guess I'll take the second part first. The term "Abrahamic religions" to me, is quite a stretch so I don't think I can agree to it being a fact. Islam tries to tie Muhammad to Ishmael, but what evidence is there? The koran's attempt as a historical record is quite lacking in support by archeological findings. The genealogy when put to the microscope is quite insufficient as well. If you buy it, that is your decision. I'll have to say that I don't and here is a rather well gathered article as to why: http://www.religionresearchinstitute.or ... .htm#_edn3

So, other than self claimed entitlement to Abraham linage, if they are all Abrahamic- as in the God of Abraham, there should be corroborating characteristics of this same God that exists among all three of these religions, right? If this same Deity exists among all 3 religions, then they all must mesh together and not contradict each other. If you agree that there is but one God, then this one God cannot contradicts the very nature of the Himself, otherwise we would have to conclude that there is more than one, different deities. If this occurs between the known doctrines of these religions, then they cannot have the same Deity- real or not. For Texas Bed- this is not a discussion of who is correct, but that they can't all have the same claim to the same God.


I don't believe that Allah of the Koran is the God of the Christians and Jews (Yahweh) and it seems that the Koran agrees with me on this.

Koran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

How can the following be rationalized?

John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Acts 4:12
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

Compare these passages:

Koran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

Bible (Matthew 5:43-48)
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Bible (Mathew 13:24-30) 24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28 "'An enemy did this,' he replied.

"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29 "'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Luke 9:51-56
51 As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52 And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53 but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[a]?" 55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them. 56 Then he and his disciples went to another village.

These are only a few differences, but there are many others.

If Allah is what Christians and Jews refer to as God, God of Abraham, Israel, Noah and so on, then he is calling for the decimation of non believers at the same time he is calling for them to be peaceful to non believers, while he is calling for the death of a sect of some believers by other believers in Him?


I don't see how one can still claim that Koran was written by God who wrote the Bible.


Question: During the life of Christ, was there an attempt to violently overthrow the Roman rule in Jerusalem? And if there was did Christ support this violence?

Since you mentioned Creator and God (Supreme Deity), I see there being an important distinction. If you say that a Creator exists, and God being the Creator of all- A single Creator. Why did the Creator cause the great flood that brought judgment on all of mankind except Noah and his family?
Because of their wickedness- which is lack of good = lack of Godliness. (Darkness = lack of light, as wickedness= lack of Godliness) He may have been the Creator of all, but He was only the God of Noah- worshiped by Noah, not the world. That is the difference between Creator and God.

So yes, he can be creator of all proclaiming Muslims, Christians/Jews and Atheists, but it does not mean that he is the one that any of them worship.


Regarding the semantics of various labels in Bulldurham's question posed:

Short hand answer, in the most concise way I can answer the semantics claim is using the statements provided me: if the deity "Gott" = God of Israel. And God of Israel = Islamic Allah. So then with any form of reason, you would have to agree that Islamic Allah = Gott the pagan god, right? I don't see an Iman agreeing with this theory.

The rest is just cause I like to ramble... and possibly because I have poor cognitive function... ;-)

I think it is important to also clarify that as god does not equal God in the English language, that some Arabic speaking individuals using the term Allah when speaking of the God of Israel with the proper name of Yahweh, is not the same Islamic deity Allah with the proper name "Allah". Allah in the first sense is being used as the generic term God or Deity, in the second it is being utilized as it has since the inception of Islam as the proper name of the Islamic God. There are many examples of Muslims that would argue that Allah in no way = generic God and the term is banned from being used by non muslims in some countries. See the last paragraph of this document http://www.islam.gov.my/sites/default/f ... llah_0.pdf
Back to the word gott, one cannot use a term from many centuries prior (besides being argued to likely not even be the origination of the term God) to equal a new term in future centuries that has a completely different meaning. The term God or god used at the time of the English translation was equal to generic deity or Supreme deity and not utilized for the pagan god "gott". If you can find multiple inscriptions to the pagan god gott that = the God of Jacob in England at the time of the King James translation, again, I'd be interested in seeing it.

In addition, it is important to note that the word God was never in the original transcription of the Torah or the New Testament writings. And like the rest of us in the modern world or at least near modern world where the English word "god" was used as an equivalent to "el" "elohim", or "theos" to refer to any deity or the Almighty "God" depending on structure, and was common language of England at the time- which has a history to the reason of it being a common language through many conquests by various cultures. God was common use at the time of translation and did not equal the deity "gott". And as stated above, there is great debate on the origination of the term.

So at best you can say that the word God is a mistranslation, and some might agree as they prefer the terms The Almighty. But you cannot say that the old or new testament was written based on the deity of gott, as you've agreed above it was written in languages not English. Yahweh or YHWH is the proper name of the Creator of the universe recorded in the Bible, and Allah was in the Koran. As noted above, quite importantly, there is a marked difference between the characteristics and laws of YHWH and Allah.

As I said before, Allah in Islam = Allah a very specific deity, which is the original record of Islam, written at the time of it's creation in 7th century AD and Allah at that time and in that context does not = generic god. Islamic Allah=a specific deity that does not cross multi faiths. And that very specific deity does not = the God of the New/Old Testaments Yahweh or YHWH (prior to vowels being added later to Yahweh) which is commonly translated into (I AM WHO I AM, or I AM THAT I AM) or something quite similar. Again, I ask if Allah in Islam = generic god, then why must Muslims use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity?

Previously demonstrated, Islamic Allah= the Allah in the Koran does not have the same characteristics as YHWH.
I agree that though God does not = gott, a more accurate translation could have been made by keeping with The Almighty or such similar term for the replacement of el, elohim, and theos, and translating YHWH more directly to I AM, or I AM (THAT) I AM, or such similar translation.

I also agree that some people outside of the Islamic religion have used the term Allah to mean generic Almighty. But again, this is not equivalent to the Islamic Allah.

This little video does a good job of showing the dangerous history of some doctrines to our world and why keeping facts, facts is important. I saw this quite a while ago and was looking for it a few months ago (someone was nice enough to send it). https://www.youtube.com/watch?sns=fb&v= ... pp=desktop

 

[Bigfoot]

I for one, am thankful to commercial farmer for his post. This thread had actually been weighing on my mind. I was perfectly happy to dismiss what has gone on as "knowing them by the fruit they bear" it was good for me to see a more enlightening post.

 

[TexasBred]

First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Bigfoot]

Does some municipal branch put on Fort Worth? I'm not seeing the constitutional connection otherwise.

 

[inyati13]

First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Excellent! That covers it TB.

The guarantees of the First Amendment are extended to all citizens. Not just those who are Christians.

Bigfoot, I was assuming it is a public event sponsored by a level of government.

 

[inyati13]

Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

TT, what does the right to have and bear arms have to do with an issue related to religious expression at a public event? Unless, you think that all the non-Christians should be shot. :lol: If that is the case, I am staying clear of all rodeos for the remainder of my life. :lol:

 

[cross_7]

In the US you have the freedom of religion and no one should infringe on that right unless of course your religion practices beheading unsuspecting middle aged women
No one has said they can't practice their religion (just not beheading and sex with children)

The FTW stock show and it's vendors are having pressure applied to them for providing a platform for said religion

It's quite simple really
Normal people don't like people that behead other people or that have sexual intercourse with children
They have an issue with any organization that provides a platform for them to promote their lifestyle

 

[red angus 2010]

In the US you have the freedom of religion and no one should infringe on that right unless of course your religion practices beheading unsuspecting middle aged women
No one has said they can't practice their religion (just not beheading and sex with children)

The FTW stock show and it's vendors are having pressure applied to them for providing a platform for said religion

It's quite simple really
Normal people don't like people that behead other people or that have sexual intercourse with children
They have an issue with any organization that provides a platform for them to promote their lifestyle

The men that want to scream that it is a peaceful religion and bash Jesus Christ won't get it until they watch their wives and daughters herded into trucks to become sexual gratification and they are marched to a pit to be executed. Be sure to tell them about our constitution and your first amendment rights. That should be good for a laugh from them or a rifle butt to the head.

 

[inyati13]

In the US you have the freedom of religion and no one should infringe on that right unless of course your religion practices beheading unsuspecting middle aged women
No one has said they can't practice their religion (just not beheading and sex with children)

The FTW stock show and it's vendors are having pressure applied to them for providing a platform for said religion

It's quite simple really
Normal people don't like people that behead other people or that have sexual intercourse with children
They have an issue with any organization that provides a platform for them to promote their lifestyle

The men that want to scream that it is a peaceful religion and bash Jesus Christ won't get it until they watch their wives and daughters herded into trucks to become sexual gratification and they are marched to a pit to be executed. Be sure to tell them about our constitution and your first amendment rights. That should be good for a laugh from them or a rifle butt to the head.

What is the plan? Would you advocate that we form a militia and round up everyone of the Islamic faith and put them to death? Because scenarios like the one you describe are not going to be stopped because they are extended the rights of the First Amendment.

 

[James T]

Well, you know he's right inyati. We have around half a million muslims in Texas and a day doesn't go by without beheadings and truck loads of women being raped in the streets by Muslims.

It's interesting how a one can easily discern between say extremist Christians but just can't pull it off with other religions.

The power of the media is way out of hand.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

TT, what does the right to have and bear arms have to do with an issue related to religious expression at a public event? Unless, you think that all the non-Christians should be shot. :lol: If that is the case, I am staying clear of all rodeos for the remainder of my life. :lol:

Third Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

 

[inyati13]

I got the Plan. Start a modern day Crusade. Kill'em all let Allah sort'em out.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus going on before

Please don't take me serious. I am making fun of the radical commentary!!!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Not at all, it's much better to roll over and do nothing. Perhaps they will show us some compassion.

 

[Bigfoot]

I would like to know with some degree of certainty if the FWSSR is produced by the government, or if it is private.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Trust in God and keep your powder dry. Best advice I have.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Ron, where have I said anything about killing anyone for their views?

What is so scary about discussing actual facts of historical events? What is so uncomfortable that there is need to create a false argument (placing something in my statements that does not exist) ?

Who is bringing up killing people? Answer- Ron's modern day crusade and well, James wanting to dispatch of all zealots.

Maybe I see where you are scared now, being a self claimed Atheist zealot... why didn't you call James out?

Wonder who gets to classify zealots?

More modern day tolerance?.... tolerance of your view only? That is what is so hilarious. A real conversation about islam is such a no, no with most atheists... that to me is funny.

I thought being the zealous atheist Ron, you might bring more to the discussion besides attempting to in general discredit the intelligence of those that don't agree with you.... rather disappointing.

Why not show me where I wanted anyone to die, solely because of their religion... its quite contrary to my beliefs (see my post above). Disagreeing with doctrines is not the same as hating someone, or wishing them death.

I'll be waiting for the quotes.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Well, you know he's right inyati. We have around half a million muslims in Texas and a day doesn't go by without beheadings and truck loads of women being raped in the streets by Muslims.

It's interesting how a one can easily discern between say extremist Christians but just can't pull it off with other religions.

The power of the media is way out of hand.

Are the muslims you label as extreme following commands of the Koran? Yes or no?