Fires in FL

[Jogeephus]

Got word this morning they are going to pull a crew off our land and are going to be cutting in Fargo as soon as the embers stop smoldering.

 

[kenny thomas]

Looks like Fl is getting rain. Got a call tonight that we will be going to the east coast of North Carolina instead. Just 21,000 acres in a swamp, what a vacation. :lol2: Hope everyone gets the rain they need.

 

[highgrit]

Just drove up from Fl. on Hwy 1 and 23. When I got to Homeland there was 15-20 dozers sitting at the Y in the road. 15 miles north just south of Waycross at the GFC station there was no less than 50 dozers just sitting there loaded up, along with 200+ other vehicles and people just sitting around doing nothing. Just another big waste of taxpayers money. After seeing all the waste the GFC won't recieve any more help from me.

 

[Jogeephus]

Highgrit, I'm glad you saw what I"ve been talking about and these staging areas extend as far as 50 miles from Waycross with equipment just sitting back and doing nothing. From what I'm gathering as long as its deployed they are getting a big check from the feds. It doesn't make sense. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the firefighters cause they put themselves in harms way and I can't help but wonder if the two firefighters who lost their lives in Florida might not be alive today if it wasn't for this apparant turf grab of federal money. I know some of the puppetmasters and I know many of the firefighters on the ground and believe me the puppet masters have no business in the position they are in cause they were promoted for the wrong reasons. For instance, if you have a crown fire in 40 foot tall planted pines you do not direct four tractors to attack the head when there is a plowed field 400 yards from the fire. You would think an incident commander would be more knowledgeable about fire behavior than to order this. This will get someone killed. You gotta pick your fight and look at the big picture and you have to listen to feedback from the guys fighting the fire. As long as you can keep it contained in a swamp or something and its not endangering lives you sometimes need to just let it do what its going to do cause you ain't gonna beat it. And he77, its just a worthless a$$ swamp that needs burning anyhow.

 

[kenny thomas]

Highgrit, I'm glad you saw what I"ve been talking about and these staging areas extend as far as 50 miles from Waycross with equipment just sitting back and doing nothing. From what I'm gathering as long as its deployed they are getting a big check from the feds. It doesn't make sense. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the firefighters cause they put themselves in harms way and I can't help but wonder if the two firefighters who lost their lives in Florida might not be alive today if it wasn't for this apparant turf grab of federal money. I know some of the puppetmasters and I know many of the firefighters on the ground and believe me the puppet masters have no business in the position they are in cause they were promoted for the wrong reasons. For instance, if you have a crown fire in 40 foot tall planted pines you do not direct four tractors to attack the head when there is a plowed field 400 yards from the fire. You would think an incident commander would be more knowledgeable about fire behavior than to order this. This will get someone killed. You gotta pick your fight and look at the big picture and you have to listen to feedback from the guys fighting the fire. As long as you can keep it contained in a swamp or something and its not endangering lives you sometimes need to just let it do what its going to do cause you ain't gonna beat it. And he77, its just a worthless a$$ swamp that needs burning anyhow.

Very well said, and part of the reason I have not advanced any higher than a Strike Team Leader where I am on the fire line leading the charge. I am the Incident Commander here but our policy is to put the fire out as small with as least cost as possible.

 

[Jogeephus]

our policy is to put the fire out as small with as least cost as possible.

That was our policy too until they made some major changes in the structure allowing political appointees who understood how the system works and they also eliminated some minimal standards for jobs so certain people could move up so they could draw a better retirement.

 

[MistyMorning]

Interesting thread fellas, I'm having a hard time understanding were FEMA comes into play on your fires? I have been told that if FEMA actualy used the same communication system and system to deploy resources like the fire folks do, the folks who suffered from Katrina and other like situations would have been better served.

I know a few folks in this business too, in fact a few are in FL. GA, TX, NM and AZ right now. As far as I've been lead to understand, these are interagency crews, Forst Service, Park Service, Fish and Wildlife, Bureau of Indain Affairs, Bureau of Land Management, and misc hotshot crews from each state. I imagine there is a bit of what appears to be waste and sitting around, different types of fires require different types of initial attack, ie....swamp fire VS heavily forested fire (crowning). All of them require some type of staging area, all of them require different methods of control. Put in place some residences and you start to have a whole different scenario.

I guess, since I am a little familiar with the wildland fire business, I may get a tad bit bent about the discussion of waste and lack of effort or should I say, desire to milk the system. There are far too many who have put themselves on the line for others.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Interesting thread fellas, I'm having a hard time understanding were FEMA comes into play on your fires? I have been told that if FEMA actualy used the same communication system and system to deploy resources like the fire folks do, the folks who suffered from Katrina and other like situations would have been better served.

I know a few folks in this business too, in fact a few are in FL. GA, TX, NM and AZ right now. As far as I've been lead to understand, these are interagency crews, Forst Service, Park Service, Fish and Wildlife, Bureau of Indain Affairs, Bureau of Land Management, and misc hotshot crews from each state. I imagine there is a bit of what appears to be waste and sitting around, different types of fires require different types of initial attack, ie....swamp fire VS heavily forested fire (crowning). All of them require some type of staging area, all of them require different methods of control. Put in place some residences and you start to have a whole different scenario.

I guess, since I am a little familiar with the wildland fire business, I may get a tad bit bent about the discussion of waste and lack of effort or should I say, desire to milk the system. There are far too many who have put themselves on the line for others.

MM
from my understanding it isn't the guys fighting the fires it is the state agencies or the gov't idiotcrats that say we need this many people for this length of time because the longer they are there the more federal assistance they qualify for even if the manpower isn't needed

 

[Jogeephus]

I guess, since I am a little familiar with the wildland fire business, I may get a tad bit bent about the discussion of waste and lack of effort or should I say, desire to milk the system. There are far too many who have put themselves on the line for others.

MM, you first have to understand that once it becomes a disaster there is a lot of federal money that can be had by the state government and they tally this by equipment and personel within the disaster zone. In the disaster zone is a key point cause if its one mile out they get nothing. If you recall a few years ago I posted some pictues of the fire set by the arsonist. We were 15 miles outside the disaster area so they were reluctant to send us any equipment. After about 3 days they grouped us into the disaster area and then we had all sorts of help putting the fire out. We had helicopters, planes and tractors from Virginia and Texas. We had National Guardsmen riding around tossing cases of MRE's to anyone with open arms. We even had a bunch of weirdoes who didn't know jack about fires from the Nature Conservancy carrying flappers.

With that said, if you don't follow this you are missing the point of my contention. I am in fact arguing for the firefighter. I can relate to them moreso than I can some mouse pusher who sits behind a desk all year then comes out and wants to take charge of something they no nothing about. If the firefighters have leadership whose attention is more focused more on the federal money than on the fires then this is a dangerous scenario. The guy I mentioned sitting down for days in a safe zone manning water pumps that would never be crunk up wasn't happy that he was not allowed to fight the fire. My other friend who sat in a hotel room for a solid week when he could have been home with his children - or god forbid fighting the fire - wasn't a happy camper either. Nor were the people in my county whose property burned to the ground because all of the equipment was sitting in or around Waycross. The story I mentioned about the 4 tractors being told to attack the crowning head actually happened.

What I'm saying is that the taxpayer and the firefighter's deserve better than this. Is it not plausible that maybe the two firefighters who lost their lives might still be alive today had someone not been holding on to unneeded resources just so they could get a larger reimbursement? I know we wouldn't have lost near the amount of acreage had they not played this game with us and I know this would have never happened 15 years ago when putting out fires was just that.

 

[MistyMorning]

Thanks for clearing that up for me AC and Jo.

 

[kenny thomas]

Well I am sitting in the middle of a swamp with 5 engines watching about a mile of fireline and it is 3:55am. Jo is right with what he states. It happens a lot and since I am out here i will be quiet. It happens and continues to.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Be safe KT

 

[Angus Cowman]

Well I am sitting in the middle of a swamp with 5 engines watching about a mile of fireline and it is 3:55am. Jo is right with what he states. It happens a lot and since I am out here i will be quiet. It happens and continues to.

Don't let non of Johnny's Squeaky Monsters get you :lol: :lol:
you stay safe ya old geezer

 

[MistyMorning]

Well I am sitting in the middle of a swamp with 5 engines watching about a mile of fireline and it is 3:55am. Jo is right with what he states. It happens a lot and since I am out here i will be quiet. It happens and continues to.

Lke the others said, stay safe out there KT.

 

[kenny thomas]

Burned 8000 acres yesterday and last night. Just about to go to bed. Not a lot of waste here though. North Carolina Forest Service doing a good job without a terrible expense. Saw a very large black bear late last night and a 5 ft. gator about 4 this morning. And all of this only a few miles from the beach just north of Willimgton NC.