Farm subisidies

[3MR]

Did I say we're a net importer of ag products? No. I said we're a net importer of FOOD.

And we are. .

Yes we are, but just like the rest of your arguement you took a correct fact and either missapplied it or made incorrect assumptions. A political tactic some times called "smoke and mirrors"

Is English your second language, by chance?? Somehow or another, I'm pretty sure you've managed to combine the trade deficit with the national debt, and call it a "gap." What you just said doesn't make sense -- and I don't mean that from a conceptual standpoint.. I mean, it just plain doesn't make sense. It's gibberish.

They held up on the 28th, and yours FAILED.

You'd have known that, if you followed economics. I did.

Well lets see. Yes English is my second language if you count Gibberish as my first, would you like to know my third language.

I have a 4 year degree in "Economics of Public Administration" from Upper Iowa, thank you for asking. What field is yours in?

If you think what I wrote is gibberish, Im sorry you dont understand the concept I am trying to explain. May I suggest you go back and open some of your econimic books. Maybe after a refresher course it wont sound like such gibberish.

Rocket science sound like gibberish to me, but then I dont try and discuss rocket science with rocket scientest. :lol:

May I suggest reading two books that will help decipher my gibberish into understandable economics for you:

(1) "Developing Country Debt and the World Economy"
(2) "The Rules of the Global Game"

You are the one that conected the trade deficit with the national Debt, albeit loosely, when you said we couldnt even out export/import taxes with foreign countries because they would quite loaning us money that we need to continue to pay interest on the national debt. If thats not connecting the trade deficit to the National debt I dont know what is!

Im not going to say what I think of your statement about the 28th as I would like to stay on a higher level as much as possible, but that makes about as much sense as your previous Great Depression hypothesis.

You seem like an intelligent person, but I think you need to research economics from a historical perspective and not a perceived cause and effect of today. Thats what politicians do, usually with an agenda.

Hindsight is usually more accurate.

Without a doubt economics has room for discussion and opinion on current cause and effects and their are various accepted theories. To me yours seems to be based on a loose concept of the complex relationships invloved and assorted editorialized or politically motivate articles. Im sorry if that sells your knowledge shorter than it really is and I dont mean to offend you.

I've gone as far as I am going with this as I refuse to get in an in depth National Econimics debate with someone I dont know on an internet discussion board for intended for Cattle. It just makes us both look stupid and I'm sure you are better than that.

Lets talk about Cows

As Paul Harvey would say "Good Day" 8) 8)

 

[dj]

In a memorable essay, Milton Friedman wrote that "millions of people all over the world regard gold as 'money,' if not the only 'true' money." As a consequence, the price of gold commands attention, and rightly so, because it serves to indicate general price stability or inflation. But gold is also a commodity, used in jewelry and by industry. This means that the details of its demand and supply affect its pricing, and need to be considered when gold is used to assay monetary policy.
_____________________________________________________
the gold price will rally further next year, possibly even regaining the nominal peak of $850 that it achieved in January 1980, when markets were in the grip of a global inflation scare. However, $850 then was worth about $2,500 in today's terms

 

[cmjust0]

Yes we are, but just like the rest of your arguement you took a correct fact and either missapplied it or made incorrect assumptions. A political tactic some times called "smoke and mirrors"

The discussion was about imported food, and people were talking about how they didn't want us to start importing too much food.. That's when I said that we were already a net importer of FOOD.

See the common thread there?? FOOD.. Not ag products -- FOOD.

And now you're gonna come try to bust my chops for splitting hairs because I didn't include other ag products? Please. If the discussion had been about ag products, and if I'd misrepresented the truth by saying that we were a net importer of ag products -- without specifying that I meant FOOD -- you'd have a leg to stand on here.

Consequently, you DON'T.

You are the one that conected the trade deficit with the national Debt, albeit loosely, when you said we couldnt even out export/import taxes with foreign countries because they would quite loaning us money that we need to continue to pay interest on the national debt. If thats not connecting the trade deficit to the National debt I dont know what is!

It does connect the trade deficit to the national debt, in a strictly political sense. The trade deficit and/or national debt can be accurately connected to a lot of things politically. You, however, attempted to combine them into one economic entity, as far as I could tell. That's what I took issue with, because they're not the same thing.

Im not going to say what I think of your statement about the 28th as I would like to stay on a higher level as much as possible, but that makes about as much sense as your previous Great Depression hypothesis.

You can claim you're taking the high road if you want, but I think it's probably got more to do with your lack of an explanation for why the dollar took a big, giant, steaming DUMP on the 29th -- after an interest rate increase.

You can offer whatever explanation you want -- or none, if you don't have one -- but the bottom line is that investors put their money under their mattresses between the time that Bernanke gave his little inflation hawk speech and the Fed meeting, and all markets were a roller coaster in between. When he issued his statement about the next move being based at least in part on "economic data," they knew he'd been bluffing with his big, bad, inflation talk, so they traded their dollars for stuff! It really is that simple.

If you want proof, how about the fact that gold is up about 12%-13% since then -- in about as many days. If you want more proof, go buy some $3/gal gas, up from about $2.50/gal right before the meeting. That oughta do it, but if it doesn't, well.... You're entitled to your opinion. :roll:

You seem like an intelligent person, but I think you need to research economics from a historical perspective and not a perceived cause and effect of today.

Is that a fact? Well, okay then, how about the fact that fiat paper money has eventually reverted to it's intrinsic value -- worthlessness -- in pretty much every society where it's ever been used?? Is that "historical" enough for ya?

Hindsight is usually more accurate.

Couldn't agree more, my friend! That's why gold is skyward bound as we speak.

If you can offer me a better explanation of the logic behind the run, I'd be happy to listen.

Without a doubt economics has room for discussion and opinion on current cause and effects and their are various accepted theories. To me yours seems to be based on a loose concept of the complex relationships invloved and assorted editorialized or politically motivate articles. Im sorry if that sells your knowledge shorter than it really is and I dont mean to offend you.

It's not so much that my understanding of the concepts is loose, it's that A) I'm better at understanding it than articulating my understanding, and B) the concepts themselves are pretty loose (or dynamic, however you want to look at it) to begin with.

As far as offending me, all I can say is that I hope you're as thick skinned as I am. I might get worked up and abrasive, but I don't get offended.

I've gone as far as I am going with this as I refuse to get in an in depth National Econimics debate with someone I dont know on an internet discussion board for intended for Cattle.

Understandable..

It just makes us both look stupid and I'm sure you are better than that.

10-4, and ditto.

Lets talk about Cows

All I can really talk about is facilities, or, more specifically, my current lack thereof. I'm working on it.

Believe it or not (and you REALLY might not.. :lol: ) I come here to learn. :shock:

:lol: :lol:

Hav'a good'n.

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

Tobacco farmers gets a huge subsidy then the Govt. turns around and sues the Tobacco companies. Now does that make sense.

 

[cmjust0]

In a memorable essay, Milton Friedman wrote that "millions of people all over the world regard gold as 'money,' if not the only 'true' money." As a consequence, the price of gold commands attention, and rightly so, because it serves to indicate general price stability or inflation. But gold is also a commodity, used in jewelry and by industry. This means that the details of its demand and supply affect its pricing, and need to be considered when gold is used to assay monetary policy.

Lack of physical demand is part of what sparked the little selloff seen recently.. The upswing is back with a vengeance today, though.

the gold price will rally further next year, possibly even regaining the nominal peak of $850 that it achieved in January 1980, when markets were in the grip of a global inflation scare. However, $850 then was worth about $2,500 in today's terms

If the feds pause rate hikes in August, $850 will be waaay back in the rearview by year's end.

 

[GMN]

ok ill jump in on this 1.the milk prices today are the same as they was 40yrs ago.an during that time cows went from $350 a hd to $2000.tractors equipment supplies feed hay an labor have all quadrippled.an milk is still at less than $10/100.the bottomline is the dairy are getting screwd.100lbs of milk is 12.5gal.an that 12.5 gal in the store sales for $37.50/100.not to mentipon what the rest of milks by products bring pre 100.if a dairy was getting paid fair he would be getting $25/100 but he isnt.we farmers have to produce cheap mass quanties of food to feed this nation an the world.all the while maintaining a high debtload.an alot of times barely getting by.how meny of the cattleman dould survive on $300 wean calves yr in yr out w/o getting a raise in price.not to meny i can tell you that.but farming dairing raising cattle wont make you rich.if you think that then your in the wrong business.we do all of this for the love of it.an being able to watch or kids grow up.an spend time with our families.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS!!!

GMN

 

[GMN]

My personal opinion is there needs to be a certification process. It would have an administrative expenss, but would probably pay for itself in the savings. Nobody should get paid for not growing crops. It should be based on your total family income including off farm income, allthough that might not be a good idea in the long run as it could encourage a certain class of people not to work like welfare does now. All subsidies should have a mandatory review and adjustment period every few years. You can choose to collect the subsidies, if you do you have to follow certain economic priciples and standards of farming goaled to increasign production and farm profit. If you dont like the Governemnt buttinskies, you do it yourself, but then you dont get the handout. Sort of like WIC

have you ever milked a cow, ran a dairy business? Doesn't sound like it from some of your views, do it before you complain about us dairy farmers!!

GMN

 

[GMN]

I was the one who refferred to it as my neighbors do to, farmers welfare. Would we rather be getting paid, at least a minimum of $15 a hundred, yes we would, do you think we like going to our local fsa office, reporting our pounds per month and getting our lil supplement, No we don't, but we do it, because it is better than nothing. $10 a hundred is ridiculus, pay from 40 years ago, with an economy where the cost of living has risen dramatically just in the last year, with fuel, diesel for our tractors, trucks, hauling, groceries in the store, medical insurance, at a all time high. The supplement by no means makes up for the money we lose every month, but we will take it, because as farmers we have learned this is how we survive. Farming isn't all about making money, I like it because I'm my own BOSS, I make decisions some good, some not so good, its on me, it lets me be home with my kids, and have the country lifestyle I treasure so much. In times of land being sold to developers, and dairy farmers going out of business on a daily basis, I wouldn't trade my lil farm for anything. I know there are other farmers out there just like me, struggling to survive, and I hope we all do, because it would be very sad if all family farms were replaced with 1 acre lots, and fancy houses.

GMN

 

[backhoeboogie]

Lincoln freed the slaves.

Do some research on that one before you post such nonsense. Statements like that destroy credibility and many of us read your post no farther.

Lincoln got elected on a 3-way split with something like 37 or 38% of the popular vote. I don't remember the exact number but it is like the lowest in history.

Did you know that northern states could still have been slaves states if they so chose? Reconstruction freed the salves in the south only.

Lincoln was not about slavery. Slavery was only used as an ethical ploy. Don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself.

 

[3MR]

My personal opinion is there needs to be a certification process. It would have an administrative expenss, but would probably pay for itself in the savings. Nobody should get paid for not growing crops. It should be based on your total family income including off farm income, allthough that might not be a good idea in the long run as it could encourage a certain class of people not to work like welfare does now. All subsidies should have a mandatory review and adjustment period every few years. You can choose to collect the subsidies, if you do you have to follow certain economic priciples and standards of farming goaled to increasign production and farm profit. If you dont like the Governemnt buttinskies, you do it yourself, but then you dont get the handout. Sort of like WIC

have you ever milked a cow, ran a dairy business? Doesn't sound like it from some of your views, do it before you complain about us dairy farmers!!

GMN

GMN - please do me a faver. Re-read my post without whatever distraction you had last time. You completely missunderstood what I was saying. There is not one place in my post I complained about dairy farmers. My entire original post, before getting distracted, was how farm subsidies arent for the producer, but for the consumer. And how they have been missmanaged allowing non-farmers and lazy people to profit from not farming.

Now that you have bit my head off, can you please spit it back out. :lol: :lol:

 

[skyeagle]

GO BUSH GO WE"S IN FOR A WRECKING we'll see 4.50 GAS
by next summer. and don't forget you can't raise your prices.
OR WE WILL GO TO CHINA !! If the goverment does not
believe in the USA workers or farmers we do not have nothing!!!
GO BUSH GO

 

[cmjust0]

Gold has gained $13/oz TODAY. Oil just hit a new record at about $77/bbl.. The stock market is down.

Things are great, huh?!?? :lol:

 

[3MR]

Gold has gained $13/oz TODAY. Oil just hit a new record at about $77/bbl.. The stock market is down.

Things are great, huh?!?? :lol:

I dont suppose you think the current events in Lebenon have anything to do with that do you.........

....and to think I started this thread to talk about farm subsidies.

I guess I only have myslef to blame. I was lead off on an alternate discussion which it appears there is no coming back from.

 

[cmjust0]

I dont suppose you think the current events in Lebenon have anything to do with that do you.........

Of course it does.. Didn't say it didn't. In fact, I think if tensions eased a bit, we might even go back to $70/bbl oil and $600 gold..

Oh, but wait.. That's still about 2.5x what it was five years ago! What do you reckon THAT'S got to do with???

 

[3MR]

I dont suppose you think the current events in Lebenon have anything to do with that do you.........

Of course it does.. Didn't say it didn't. In fact, I think if tensions eased a bit, we might even go back to $70/bbl oil and $600 gold..

Oh, but wait.. That's still about 2.5x what it was five years ago! What do you reckon THAT'S got to do with???

Well considering you didnt respond to my PM I can only infer you have no desire to discuss it outside this thread. Being I have no desire to continue to discuss it here on a cattle board, I guess we are done.

 

[cmjust0]

Well considering you didnt respond to my PM I can only infer you have no desire to discuss it outside this thread. Being I have no desire to continue to discuss it here on a cattle board, I guess we are done.

Well, considering I never got a PM, I can only infer you didn't send one. :lol:

Edited to add: I just checked my PM again, and the last thing I have in there is from 6/20.

 

[3MR]

Ok, My bad, I will try and send it again. Basicaly I was just askign some questions about your view point. I really dont think anbody is really interested in this other than us.

 

[3MR]

I checked my sent box and it wasnt there so maybe I screwed up sending it. I will send it again.

 

[cmjust0]

Ok, My bad, I will try and send it again. Basicaly I was just askign some questions about your view point. I really dont think anbody is really interested in this other than us.

You're right.. If you think that's as sad as I do, we'll probably get along pretty well. :lol:

 

[3MR]

Ok, My bad, I will try and send it again. Basicaly I was just askign some questions about your view point. I really dont think anbody is really interested in this other than us.

You're right.. If you think that's as sad as I do, we'll probably get along pretty well. :lol:

LOL, Im sure yorur right, post re-sent. Take your time answering. Dont missunderstand and get mad, but please answer with some thought. Reffer to previous post if required.

erxuse my typos please