False Heat or Rip Off?

[Black and Good]

I boght three cow/calf pairs yesterday two three year olds and one nine year old. All with five month old calves. The guy told me they had ran with a bull in june and july and it was just the three of them. I no more than got them home and one of the three year old starts mounting the others and her own steer calf. My question is can stress trigger a false heat or did I buy an open cow? What do you all think? I can't hardly believe he would not have saw her in. I guess I was lied to. Thanks B&G :deadhorse:

 

[Alan]

Usually it's the heifer/cow being mounted that's in heat, not the one doing the mounting. But lots of things could effect and cause bulling. Also just because a cow was exposed to a bull is not a guarantee the cow is bred, it simply means "the cow was exposed to the bull for "X" amount of time, I would not consider that a lie by the seller.

BTW, I have a two year old steer that seem to try to mount my bull at least once a day, bull doesn't seem to appreciate it too much.

 

[dun]

Unless they were preg checked to be safe with calf, if you paid for a 3 in one you screwed up. If it's someone you know well you could get them pregged and if any are open you might could talk to the seller about getting some moeny back. Otherwise it's part of the tuition

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I boght three cow/calf pairs yesterday two three year olds and one nine year old. All with five month old calves. The guy told me they had ran with a bull in june and july and it was just the three of them. I no more than got them home and one of the three year old starts mounting the others and her own steer calf. My question is can stress trigger a false heat

This tells me that the calves were born in May. Cows ran with the bull in June and July but no guarantee of actually being bred or 'in calf'. If June and July were as hot where you are (which I don't know) as they were where I am, it certainly could have a bearing on conception rates.

The cows were with the bull right after the birth of calves, hopefully getting them pregnant on their "calf heat" or the one right after. But if it was too dang hot, they may not have settled.

Sometimes they will "look" in heat when moved to a new 'home', and what you are seeing could be behavior related to establishing dominance or their place in the pecking order----were they turned out with an already established herd?

To know for sure, get them preg checked.

Did the seller guarantee them to be bred?

Katherine

 

[Chris H]

If he sold them to you as pasture exposed in June & July, you should not automatically assume he's lying. If he sold them to you as bred, did anyone preg test? If the last exposure was in July, then a vet could easily palpate and confirm. Give him a call and see what can be worked out.

BTW, since the calves are 5 months, that means the cow calved in May. A breeding on 7/31/12 would have you expecting a calf in mid-May next year. My point is, exposing a May calving cow to a bull in June & July could easily have them bred, but it wouldn't be unusual for a cow not to be bred in that timeframe.

**Edited to add** Katherine types faster than me!

 

[Black and Good]

She was showing heat in the barn before being turned out with the herd. She is for sure in heat, turned her out with herd this afternoon an my Balancer bull bred her right away. Not that big a deal as I bought them and ten bales of hay at pair prices. I don't think the guy was trying to decieve anyone just don't think he watched them enough.

 

[farmforever]

well did he sell them as bred or exposed cows? we had or bull in for 2 and half months and we still had a open cow at preg check time and she is coming around. yet for some reason she probably wasn't cycling from heat

 

[jerry27150]

if they are not preg checked, they are assumed open. they get some guys who will think there luck is good enough, that they may get one that is bred that way.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Do you guys have a problem with Trich? The thought kind of scares me, since the cows were with a bull, but not bred, and you ran your bull with them. If they were exposed to Trich, you just contaminated your bull! The cows shed for a few months, but bulls carry it all the time. In MO, a non-virgin bull can not be sold without a negative trich test. It causes early abortions in females, but you never see symptoms in bulls.
Just a thought!

 

[greybeard]

Unless he actually told you or made it reasonably clear he was pretty confident they were bred, he didn't lie. Even if he had seen the bull doin his work with each, it is no way the same (to me) as saying or guaranteeing "they're bred" (carrying a calf).

She is for sure in heat, turned her out with herd this afternoon an my Balancer bull bred her right away.

Yep, but unless you have her checked, ya don't know for sure that she won't come back into heat if it didn't 'stick'.
In that case, did ya lie to us?
Of course not--you stated what you know, to the best of your knowledge. There's a lot of difference between that and lying.

 

[Black and Good]

Unless he actually told you or made it reasonably clear he was pretty confident they were bred, he didn't lie. Even if he had seen the bull doin his work with each, it is no way the same (to me) as saying or guaranteeing "they're bred" (carrying a calf).

She is for sure in heat, turned her out with herd this afternoon an my Balancer bull bred her right away.

Yep, but unless you have her checked, ya don't know for sure that she won't come back into heat if it didn't 'stick'.
In that case, did ya lie to us?
Of course not--you stated what you know, to the best of your knowledge. There's a lot of difference between that and lying.

OK,So I used a poor choice of words. The guy told me in Oct. That he had a bull with them for 5 or 6 weeks in late June early July. He also said he had'nt seen any action out of them at all since then?? I was asking for input,NOT the fourth Reich. Thank you.

 

[chippie]

If you are unsure, get them pregnancy checked. We have had pregnant cows act like they are in heat when around a new cow or place. Their hormones can make them act wonky.

It could have been a misunderstanding. Saying an animal is bred could mean different things to different people. A cow can have been bred, but not pregnant.

 

[greybeard]

Unless he actually told you or made it reasonably clear he was pretty confident they were bred, he didn't lie. Even if he had seen the bull doin his work with each, it is no way the same (to me) as saying or guaranteeing "they're bred" (carrying a calf).

She is for sure in heat, turned her out with herd this afternoon an my Balancer bull bred her right away.

Yep, but unless you have her checked, ya don't know for sure that she won't come back into heat if it didn't 'stick'.
In that case, did ya lie to us?
Of course not--you stated what you know, to the best of your knowledge. There's a lot of difference between that and lying.

OK,So I used a poor choice of words. The guy told me in Oct. That he had a bull with them for 5 or 6 weeks in late June early July. He also said he had'nt seen any action out of them at all since then?? I was asking for input,NOT the fourth Reich. Thank you.

Sorry--I really didn't mean for it to come off or sound that way. I don't think YOU used a poor choice of words, but perhaps he did--tho I've used the term "bred" in that very same context as well lots of time, but you are the only one that was there and are the only one that can tell by the seller's voice inflection, exact wording etc what he was really saying or at least--strongly inferring. I think we all tend to erroneously use the word 'bred' and 'pregnant' as meaning one and the same--including me.
More than once, even after seeing a bull mount and service a cow or heifer, I was subsequently proven wrong in my assumption that a cow was "bred" [pregnant).

 

[Black and Good]

Thanks everyone for the great advise and input. I'll just cross my fingers and hope she's bred this time. That will put her having a July calf. She's just three yrs old so maybe and catch her up next year. I don't have a fall herd or I would think about that. Thank agian. B&G

 

[glacierridge]

Do you guys have a problem with Trich? The thought kind of scares me, since the cows were with a bull, but not bred, and you ran your bull with them. If they were exposed to Trich, you just contaminated your bull! The cows shed for a few months, but bulls carry it all the time. In MO, a non-virgin bull can not be sold without a negative trich test. It causes early abortions in females, but you never see symptoms in bulls.
Just a thought!

What is Trich and how do cows get it? I feel stupid asking but since it sounds like just an abbreviation I can't google it on my own...

 

[Katie]

"Trich" is Trichomoniasis. It is a sexually transmitted disease.

 

[glacierridge]

Ah. That explains why I had no clue. I'm 29 and my dad has AI'd the herd for over 40 years... Still good to know in case. Thanks!!